New HC

Honestly I think MM had basically lost the locker room.  I said it after Ty was let go when several players were anonymous sources on stories about Ty throwing a tantrum and disobeying the coaches.  As I said at the time, good teams with good leadership keep that stuff in house even if it is true.

Trading Ha Ha was another one where I saw Gute attempt to rein in control of the team from malcontents.  I think this has been foreshadowed for a while, there have been many cracks forming in this org that had nothing to do with stuff on the field.

Gute seemed to be the only one trying to make the players accountable.  But that's the coaches job and MM just lost this team.  They were all playing like they didn't care.

I don't like firing a coach mid-season but if the coach has lost the team, it's basically required.

Grave Digger posted:

I think some of you are overreacting to this structure. It’s common throughout the league and you don’t hear about there being issues with accountability. Pittsburgh and NE have the same set up, I don’t think there’s any issues with those coaches not reporting to the GM.

In New England, Belichick is essentially the GM.  Gutey was the compromise choice by Murphy after MM and Rodgers objected to the hiring of Ball as GM--who by all accounts would have been given full GM powers.  Murphy's decision basically says he doesn't see Gutey as qualified to have all GM powers such as evaluating/hiring/firing the Head Coach.  He is really just the director of player personnel but with the title of GM.

GratefulPack posted:

MichiganPacker2 posted:

GratefulPack posted:

chickenboy posted:

It just dawned on me that we have at the very least a month and a half of speculating who the next head coach will be. It may have been more interesting to just b and moan about M3 the rest of the season.

Could be 2-3 months for this organization.  A good organization would have things somewhat figured out already, but I am guessing Murphy hasn't even thought about the next step.

A good organization would can Murphy as well. Really get a fresh start. 

I agree, the way the whole TT transition was handled was an embarrassment.  In addition, I thought the idea starting with Harlan/Wolf was for the upper-management to get out of the way in relation to football and worry about bloody mary bars.  I was troubled that Murphy retained control over the HC in the end and it seems that Russ Ball also reports to him.  This sets the atmosphere to return to the post-Vince mess.

The Russ Ball stuff that's been leaked out during the slow death of a season is the most concerning. It seemed TT wanted to cede control to Ball, but that Ball made several bad moves in free agency (Hyde being one example) and then one of the articles implying that TT had been letting Ball have more influence on the draft. If that was true, they should have sent Russ Ball on his way as well. Gute might be fine, but not with Russ Ball being an equal. The fact that a lot of people seemed to consistently be against Ball (Rodgers, MM, etc.) suggests that this was a problem that didn't get fixed. 

Music City posted:

So they’re saying they did not intend on firing him when they met after the game... if that’s the case, McCarthy may have told them he’s done. Or that he doesn’t see any improvements possible. Either way, it appears that he wasn’t going to be fired until they met. Then they did...

Can you link this?  What article?

I think they had to let MM go now. For all intents and purposes, Rodgers was in open revolt in on-field actions as well as in pressers, MM quit going to meetings probably to get away from Rodgers, Kizer and Boyle admit to acting as a go-between, and it was just a toxic situation. If that had continued, the whole team would have imploded. I’m not sure firing MM will cure it, but some move had to be made.

The majority of the situation was created by MM being too loyal—to his playbook, to his rotten assistants, to his “we do what we do” identity and mantra. But we cannot just give Rodgers a free pass either; you keep this crap in-house and don’t trash your coach publicly. I also get the feeling that Rodgers may be using MM as a scapegoat for his own worsening play. So now, between the end of this year and through next season, Rodgers has to go back to playing like his great self or he is going to look pretty bad.

After watching the Packers sleep walk in the Cardinals game, a game they had to have,and then watching how the Bears, Giants ,Queenies and Cheatriouts went at it, tells you all you need to know if the Packers should have circular filed McCarthy.

Hey!! You know what’s getting lost in all this? “STACKED!” Is really starting to suck now!

slowmo posted:

He is really just the director of player personnel but with the title of GM.

 And Mark Murphy is exercising control as the de facto owner.

vitaflo posted:

Honestly I think MM had basically lost the locker room.  I said it after Ty was let go when several players were anonymous sources on stories about Ty throwing a tantrum and disobeying the coaches.  As I said at the time, good teams with good leadership keep that stuff in house even if it is true.

Trading Ha Ha was another one where I saw Gute attempt to rein in control of the team from malcontents.  I think this has been foreshadowed for a while, there have been many cracks forming in this org that had nothing to do with stuff on the field.

Gute seemed to be the only one trying to make the players accountable.  But that's the coaches job and MM just lost this team.  They were all playing like they didn't care.

I don't like firing a coach mid-season but if the coach has lost the team, it's basically required.

I think if you look at the absolute night and day scenario between the defense and offense, you again see the clear delineation of where McVince was failing.  There is nothing left of that defensive roster and still those guys were hustling until they couldn't hustle anymore.  The offense, not so much.

That is what I think as well.  

i am kind of sad for the franchise right now.  we are held in the same regard as pitt, ne-- upper echelon kind of franchise-- and while I don't like the firing mid season, i can get it...but i kind of agree with some other coaches view right now, i think we should have given him til the end of the season.  that would have been respectful to coaching in general.  however, its done...what also sucks right now, is that a lot of dirty laundry that was swept under the carpet comes out at these times and i think that does tarnish the best franchise in the world for sure.  so the fact that gb coaching job is the best job in the world - not if you treat guys the way you did mm, that is my opinion and maybe some candidates will put that in a con's list for their next job search, and mabye gb is not going to have coaches banging the doors down wanting to be hired.  i think murphy botched this up to sell tickets, he's a good guy for $ to the franchise, but he seems to suck for making decisions like this.  he should have fired him last season, when the contract was done and he needs to give gute the coaching responsibility.  if he does not, he's out of touch.

You honestly think there was any lack of demand for tickets?

its more than just tickets with the theme park now.  he needs to get asses into that thing to keep the cash machine going.  he's only got 4 weeks to meet his quota for sales, not just tickets, but the whole side gig, the extra curricular stuff needs to keep generating $, if the packers suck, those 'edge' people from out of town who were 'thinking' of going to a game, won't because the team is lost.

No, it just means there will be more tickets available to all the opposing teams fans that like coming to Lambeau.  Just based on what I've see on the screen, there have been a lot more of them the last couple years.  That will only get worse if they don't start winning again soon.

pkr_north posted:

i am kind of sad for the franchise right now.  we are held in the same regard as pitt, ne-- upper echelon kind of franchise-- and while I don't like the firing mid season, i can get it...but i kind of agree with some other coaches view right now, i think we should have given him til the end of the season.  that would have been respectful to coaching in general.  however, its done...what also sucks right now, is that a lot of dirty laundry that was swept under the carpet comes out at these times and i think that does tarnish the best franchise in the world for sure.  so the fact that gb coaching job is the best job in the world - not if you treat guys the way you did mm, that is my opinion and maybe some candidates will put that in a con's list for their next job search, and mabye gb is not going to have coaches banging the doors down wanting to be hired.  i think murphy botched this up to sell tickets, he's a good guy for $ to the franchise, but he seems to suck for making decisions like this.  he should have fired him last season, when the contract was done and he needs to give gute the coaching responsibility.  if he does not, he's out of touch.

I also am a bit sad for the team right now because it really was nice to have the winning stability we have enjoyed most of the time.  But, I disagree that the Packers job isn't that good anymore.  I guarrantee there are coaches out there who have had to work for the meddling or impatient owners of the NFL who would love to work in GB. 

Rodgers is probably going to go 30 for 34 next week, 425 yards, five Td and no ints and get hammered by the media. And would probably deserve it. 

Aaron wouldn't deliberately throw a game would he??  Nah, he wouldn't would he???  Nah, he wouldn't.         

Floridarob posted:

Rodgers is probably going to go 30 for 34 next week, 425 yards, five Td and no ints and get hammered by the media. And would probably deserve it. 

Especially if he all of a sudden finds his pinpoint accuracy again. Sh!tty play calling wasn’t causing all of those errant throws. 

Rodgers has put himself in a no-win situation. If he goes off for great games the rest of this year and develops a better attitude, then he looks like a coach killer. If he remains merely good, then he will take the heat for getting a good coach fired when it was Rodgers' own fault for his performance. If he wants to retain the respect of his teammates and coaches in the league, he has to play, and play this, just right. 

I'm sure he was sandbagging it under the pile of opposing defensive ends.

You'd always like to see a SB winning coach ride off into the sunset at his own discretion and MM deserves respect for what he did initially for the Packers. I didn't expect the firing to come prior to season-end but I do like the fact that the Packers will have extra time to get the process going,  do a thorough search and get first crack at the guy they want. Until I hear it from Murphy or MM, I'm assuming that leaving early was not MM's choice. Maybe the guy they want is available now (Fitzgerald?)  and he can start getting his staff together.

Not sure what to make of supposed report of Murphy not intending to fire McVince until he did.

DH13 posted:

You honestly think there was any lack of demand for tickets?

Not to get too far down the rabbit hole on this conspiracy theory, but I don't think it's necessarily just about ticket sales. They've made an enormous investment in the stadium, the practice field, the titletown district, etc. and right now, being out of the playoffs, the season is essentially over. I don't think demand will go down, but I don't think Murphy wants to gamble with revenue. They have to remain relevant and keep some level of interest. 

I don't think it's about ticket sales.  I don't think it's about Rodgers conspiracy.  I don't think it's about anything but the collective organization ****ing up and scrambling to fix it with too little too late.

Henry posted:

Not sure what to make of supposed report of Murphy not intending to fire McVince until he did.

It means that just like with TT, he is reactive and not proactive.  A good leader is thinking ahead, planning and takes the initiative.  Combine this with the fact that he has flagrantly turned the system that Harlan/Wolf created on its head and in a perfect world he would be let go next.  I doubt it will happen but if this franchise fails to rebound in the next couple of years he will be gone.

I had just walked into Lambeau yesterday, the entry by the huge Lombardi trophy, and there was Mark Murphy right in front of me hobbling past.  That was unusual, and the guy really appears to have a hard time walking, I never knew.

after sitting through that low energy, stale, no juice, fiasco yesterday, a game we were viewing as our first "playoff" game as a way to be interested, on the way out of the stadium my buddy says "we just witnessed the end of an era".   I had no idea he could so accurately predict the future.

the firing was surprising at this time but it's been done.  I don't give a sh*t what all the punditry speculates on.  it's done, over, moving on.

FORWARD!   Get on back to glory.

It's not about ticket sales today BUT they need to keep demand up and that requires relevancy.  For 2 years they have not been relevant and there has been more soap opera stuff talked about than football.  This is supposed to be a Football Team not As the World Turns.

The Board and Murphy/GuteyBall need to get a firm handle on this and make some tough decisions and make the right choices.  We know the Board will be here forever, the heads of state can be replaced.

And if as reported there has been a bit of a coup, that needs to be addressed also. That can't happen.  #inmates/asylum

Henry posted:

Not sure what to make of supposed report of Murphy not intending to fire McVince until he did.

Yeah, that's weird ... Maybe MM requested to be terminated? Because if he resigns it looks really bad & might not get another gig.

I'm blaming the League for the Packers troubles this season. It all started after that bullshit "tie" & tackling a QB while holding the football is a penalty. This season was ****ed from week 2.

Consulted Gutekunst but not Ball? 

I think Murphy would have preferred to let Mike finish the season. But the heat on Mike was already on high and would have been full afterburner this week following yesterday. Murphy had no choice but to make the change. There’s no way you can let coaches and players answer questions about coaching changes the next 4 weeks that everyone knows are coming. 

Mike gets to hang with the family and start the process of what’s next. He’s got time. Green Bay gets a jump on their HC search. Philbin gets a 4 week audition but it’s inconceivable he’s the choice. 

Im no Murphy fan but he made the best decision for all involved yesterday. 

ChilliJon posted:

I think Murphy would have preferred to let Mike finish the season. But the heat on Mike was already on high and would have been full afterburner this week following yesterday. Murphy had no choice but to make the change. There’s no way you can let coaches and players answer questions about coaching changes the next 4 weeks that everyone knows are coming. 

Mike gets to hang with the family and start the process of what’s next. He’s got time. Green Bay gets a jump on their HC search. Philbin gets a 4 week audition but it’s inconceivable he’s the choice. 

Im no Murphy fan but he made the best decision for all involved yesterday. 

Agree that any HC interview for Philbin would be strictly out of courtesy. Curious to see if they keep him on in some capacity to help facilitate the transition with the new HC. 

Tdog posted:

I had just walked into Lambeau yesterday, the entry by the huge Lombardi trophy, and there was Mark Murphy right in front of me hobbling past.  That was unusual, and the guy really appears to have a hard time walking, I never knew.

after sitting through that low energy, stale, no juice, fiasco yesterday, a game we were viewing as our first "playoff" game as a way to be interested, on the way out of the stadium my buddy says "we just witnessed the end of an era".   I had no idea he could so accurately predict the future.

the firing was surprising at this time but it's been done.  I don't give a sh*t what all the punditry speculates on.  it's done, over, moving on.

FORWARD!   Get on back to glory.

I was at the game yesterday as well. And noticed Murphy limping on the field too. Agree with what you said about low energy, stale, don’t care attitude. 

Hungry5 posted:

Consulted Gutekunst but not Ball? 

Well, that's something I guess. 

Henry posted:

I don't think it's about ticket sales.  I don't think it's about Rodgers conspiracy.  I don't think it's about anything but the collective organization ****ing up and scrambling to fix it with too little too late.

Yep you nailed in IMHO and I don't think it is about ticket sales either. 

I think it was a perfect storm of things going on with the organization.  The talent pipeline (or lack thereof) had caught up with the team, injuries all over the place, MM and all his issues, and AR not being happy/playing well.  All of that added up to a lost season and the Packers pulled the trigger to fix the coaching situation first.  

I'd like to add to the stupidest post in history.  Mark Chmura for the duhhhhhh.  Idiot.

“Aaron’s not going to come out of this looking good. Aaron might be happy, but Aaron, to me, looks like the prima donna basketball player in the NBA that wants his coach fired. There were rumblings last week — cause I listen to a lot of the national media — that were saying Aaron Rodgers is difficult to coach, whether that’s because he’s smart or whatever the case may be. He might be happy, but I don’t think he comes out of this looking good. He got his coach fired.”

Goldie posted:

Aaron wouldn't deliberately throw a game would he??  Nah, he wouldn't would he???  Nah, he wouldn't.         

Here’s hoping medication is available for your neurosis. 

MM grew stale and refused to change. Systems centric coaches are a dying breed in NFL, for good reason. AR12 will assault DB’s again and soon and we will all be glad for it. It’s this simple and it was overdue for his forced change. 

What, Me Murphy? starting to demonstrate some leadership. He may be feeling some heat from his bosses as well...asleep at the wheel it seems.

If he listens to Gute instead of his ego, they will get a good coach.

Brainwashed Boris posted:

Henry posted:

Not sure what to make of supposed report of Murphy not intending to fire McVince until he did.

Yeah, that's weird ... Maybe MM requested to be terminated? Because if he resigns it looks really bad & might not get another gig.

I'm blaming the League for the Packers troubles this season. It all started after that bullshit "tie" & tackling a QB while holding the football is a penalty. This season was ****ed from week 2.

Resign means you walk away from contract if that is even possible. You always want to be fired and leave on good terms. It’s the financially prudent thing to do

Henry posted:

I'd like to add to the stupidest post in history.  Mark Chmura for the duhhhhhh.  Idiot.

“Aaron’s not going to come out of this looking good. Aaron might be happy, but Aaron, to me, looks like the prima donna basketball player in the NBA that wants his coach fired. There were rumblings last week — cause I listen to a lot of the national media — that were saying Aaron Rodgers is difficult to coach, whether that’s because he’s smart or whatever the case may be. He might be happy, but I don’t think he comes out of this looking good. He got his coach fired.”

That's what Chris Carter said, that Rodgers will be under 3x the pressure no matter how he plays. or to that affect, it all on Rodgers now.