With fewer updates.
Grave Digger posted:Tdog posted:Mike Holmgren, Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy
I think I get it
So is Murphy M4 and Mike Pettine M5? It would be easier if someone made a cheat sheet with all the acronyms because I must be behind.
I’m still trying to figure out who this McVince fellow is.
FinnLander posted:chickenboy posted:The couple 'grass ain't always greener' posts above make some good points. Another point is the Packer brass seems to be more into the making money business than the winning business and a big part of that is PR. If they factor in public opinion, M3 needs to go.
I hope no organization I'm a fan of ever "factors in public opinion" when making important decisions.
Public opinion cannot be part of this they have to make the right call for what they believe is the best for the franchise.
I hated Buddy Ryan but he did have one good saying and that was "if you listen to the fans you will be sitting with them"
The Heckler posted:FinnLander posted:chickenboy posted:The couple 'grass ain't always greener' posts above make some good points. Another point is the Packer brass seems to be more into the making money business than the winning business and a big part of that is PR. If they factor in public opinion, M3 needs to go.
I hope no organization I'm a fan of ever "factors in public opinion" when making important decisions.
Public opinion cannot be part of this they have to make the right call for what they believe is the best for the franchise.
I hated Buddy Ryan but he did have one good saying and that was "if you listen to the fans you will be sitting with them"
Sage advice.
"I don't care to belong to any club that
will accept me as a member." -----Groucho Marx
Chongo posted:Packdog posted:Hope the next Head Coach can get his $30M diva QB to make the easy play.
Failed 3rd down conversion #2. pic.twitter.com/Sox57scDmE
— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) November 27, 2018Everything's easy when you don't know what you are doing.
Sure, we know what we're doing on film. But you have to admit, the receiver ran right across Rodgers' line of vision, and not 40 yards away either. Rodgers could have just pitched it forward for a completion. So... why not take the easy throw for five or six yards?
Chongo posted:"We do what we do," is a C-student mentality. Find something that works, and repeat ad infinitum until it works again.
Or as Vince Lombardi said, find something that works and repeat ad infinitum until the other team can stop it.
Fandame posted:Chongo posted:Packdog posted:Hope the next Head Coach can get his $30M diva QB to make the easy play.
Failed 3rd down conversion #2. pic.twitter.com/Sox57scDmE
— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) November 27, 2018Everything's easy when you don't know what you are doing.
Sure, we know what we're doing on film. But you have to admit, the receiver ran right across Rodgers' line of vision, and not 40 yards away either. Rodgers could have just pitched it forward for a completion. So... why not take the easy throw for five or six yards?
Worth listening to this analysis. Need to turn up your volume on this tweet.
Sat here with @jco3215 for an hour talking about this play from Packers/Vikings SNF. Somehow made a video under 2min about it.
— Ben Fennell (@BenFennell_NFL) November 28, 2018
Give a listen... 🔈🔉🔉 pic.twitter.com/S9sl3PBwUf
Packers' passing game struggling to attack middle of field https://t.co/OlPFQEvGA2
— The Packers Wire (@ThePackersWire) November 28, 2018
Saw this mentioned earlier in the thread. Striking failure of the offense.
Michiganjoe, I have always said that to truly make this offense hum you have to have a decent TE. Graham has missed a good amount of time and has been banged up, Kendricks is just meh, and Lewis well he has been a non factor.
I think Gute is going to have to come up with another TE option this offseason to help get this offense on track.
Packdog posted:Hope the next Head Coach realizes there are vast route options other than just boundary routes
That is stunning
The Heckler posted:\Graham has missed a good amount of time and has been banged up,
Graham hasn't missed any games. And the one day per week he doesn't practice, he's actually done that for years. Did the same thing at Seattle. So it's a maintenance issue for him.
I can see why it would seem like he's missed a good amount of time. He's under utilized. The Packers lead the NFL in pass distribution to the perimeter (or outside).
So that means they aren't using the middle of the field. Somewhere Graham could excel in. I don't get it. You saw Minnesota leave the middle wide open last week. Jimmy hauled in 2 passes, one deep, right in that gap. And it took forever for MM to call a play there.
An example of bigger problems with scheme and play calling.
packerboi posted:So that means they aren't using the middle of the field. Somewhere Graham could excel in. I don't get it. You saw Minnesota leave the middle wide open last week. Jimmy hauled in 2 passes, one deep, right in that gap. And it took forever for MM to call a play there.
An example of bigger problems with scheme and play calling.
I'm assuming, after seeing seeing Rodgers burn them on posts, sluggos, and seam busters for years and then adding Graham, who as you say would excel at that, teams are guarding that seam pretty well. You can watch the play above and see the two Safeties take inside leverage om Cover 2 to guard the middle of the field. I think that's why we see so much perimeter work, the hope is that teams will soften up in the middle and THEN Graham can bust it.
The Heckler posted:Michiganjoe, I have always said that to truly make this offense hum you have to have a decent TE. Graham has missed a good amount of time and has been banged up, Kendricks is just meh, and Lewis well he has been a non factor.
I think Gute is going to have to come up with another TE option this offseason to help get this offense on track.
Don't disagree, I would just say that I don't think MM has squeezed the most out of what talent he does have. Graham has been decent but certainly not what they anticipated and agree it has to be a focus of Gute this offseason.
Grave Digger posted:I think that's why we see so much perimeter work, the hope is that teams will soften up in the middle and THEN Graham can bust it.
Except the Graham catches in the middle didn't occur until the final drive of the game. Meanwhile, as Fennell and others pointed out, the middle of the field was open far sooner then the end of the game. It's just curious to me why MM or Rodgers isn't using either Graham or Lewis, who has an embarrassing 3 catches all year, or even a new weapon in Tonyan who made a great catch 2 weeks ago and had a very strong pre-season up the middle.
And new rule changes are allowing offenses to see more gaps in the middle of the field. Again, something MM doesn't seem to have caught up on:
More and more NFL teams are attacking the middle of the field without fear, thanks largely to rule changes easing the worries of throwing the football into traffic. The Packers appear to be a rare exception.
GM Brian Gutekunst acquired Graham this offseason to help the offense expose the middle of the field. The results have been mostly disappointing so far. .
The absolute worst part of the deep seam to Graham wasn’t even that it finally happened late in the game. If you watch the replay you see the LBs racing back to get depth. Leaving the shallow middle completely open. And for reasons that make no sense MVS ran a post right into Grahams back pocket (bringing more coverage to an already tight window) instead of just busting ass for a shallow drag that would have been an easy catch and run. The play worked thanks to a great throw and catch. But the play design / execution was bad.
Yeah I think that's the point I made is that teams are working to take away that option, so they work the perimeter until Safeties and LBs start to bite on that stuff, opening things up for Graham down the seam. Sounds like the overall plan worked, it just wasn't completed.
I've never in my life seen so much discussion about why the 3rd and 4th TE on the depth chart are being underutilized. I'm not sure utilizing either in the pass game will make much difference or solve any problems.
On Rodgers and McCarthy: "Several sources familiar with the inner workings of the organization say that it devolved into a competition over who can call the better play, and both want the credit when things go right." https://t.co/z1vH5TnQrn
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) November 29, 2018
Lengthy SI piece worth the time. Basically concludes plenty of blame to go around and MM is dead man walking.
My biggest takeaway from the piece: blowing the whole thing up last year would have probably been the right move.
Great article. Only thing really missing (and a largely underreported story IMO) is any mention about how much Russ Ball is to blame for TT's last few years of mostly uninspired drafting and decisions.
I find myself agreeing with you, MJ. I think the desire to get Rodgers re-signed meant that wasn't in the cards, however.
michiganjoe postedLengthy SI piece worth the time. Basically concludes plenty of blame to go around and MM is dead man walking.
My take as well.
1.) If most inside the organization think MM is gone, well, then he likely is.
2.) This organization under TT got lazy relying way too much on Rodgers bailing them out. Many fans suspected this but interesting to hear it confirmed in the article.
3.) It sounds like scouts and "grunt" guys felt a lot of leg work, time, and energy spent working out potential trades (Marshawn Lynch, Moss, Tony Gonzalez) or picks fell on deaf ears once it got to Ted. I can see why those guys got pissed off by that and felt unappreciated for hard work done only for nothing to be done.
4.) This organization got way too controlling and micro managed. Jeebus. From the uniform and locker room ridiculous rules to MM shipping out anyone who he's interpreting as a threat (Van Pelt), it sounds something out of a dysfunctional military school.
5.) Dueling egos of MM and AR isn't working well anymore. It appears each guy is trying to show up the other instead of doing what's best for the game and getting the win. That rarely works out.
"Several sources familiar with the inner workings of the organization say that it devolved into a competition over who can call the better play, and both want the credit when things go right."
Seriously?
This board is going to explode if he isn't fired. It will be another season of not only FIRE MM, but also FIRE GUTE and FIRE MURPHY! We will have to make a separate forum just for people to flame them. It's going to be kind of funny and kind of tragic.
I'm in. If any of the above stuff is true this team is ****ed anyways.
Also, chock me up and not a fan of Russ Ball.
“It’s an insane level of control,” says one person close to the organization. “No fun, it’s all about the Packer brand and being a vice president. The most important people in the organization are the VPs. The players and all that, that comes later.”
This type of mentality works well...if you are winning consistently. The minute you stop winning, people revolt.
Chongo posted:“It’s an insane level of control,” says one person close to the organization. “No fun, it’s all about the Packer brand and being a vice president. The most important people in the organization are the VPs. The players and all that, that comes later.”
This type of mentality works well...if you are winning consistently. The minute you stop winning, people revolt.
This team is ****ed.
Hungry5 posted:#FireGraveDigger
That's the easy part, who can replace him?
Hopefully after McCarthy is fired Gutekunst is given the control, as it should be.
Pikes Peak posted:Hungry5 posted:#FireGraveDigger
That's the easy part, who can replace him?
Yeah! To all those who want Grave Digger fired give me a list of who would replace him!
Nevermind.
"I think the continuity and stability has served us well. You see it across the league, I think you have to be careful not to make changes for changes’ sake.”
-- What, Me Murphy?
Cham Chongo posted:Packdog posted:Hope the next Head Coach can get his $30M diva QB to make the easy play.
Failed 3rd down conversion #2. pic.twitter.com/Sox57scDmE
— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) November 27, 2018Everything's easy when you don't know what you are doing.
Chaka Khan 1984
Henry posted:I'm in. If any of the above stuff is true this team is ****ed anyways.
Also, chock me up and not a fan of Russ Ball.
I agree from what we as fans have heard. But what do we really know about the guy? I remember Rodgers correcting Mike and Mike when they incorrectly said Ball was hired as GM, and he said it with disdain Imo, but why is the dude so hated?
Pikes Peak posted:Hungry5 posted:#FireGraveDigger
That's the easy part, who can replace him?
Sarge? Squirrelpee?
We need Lionheart!!!
(Who says I hate other teams fans? ) 
Packiderm posted:We need Lionheart!!!
(Who says I hate other teams fans? )
He chocked to death on consonants.
michiganjoe posted:On Rodgers and McCarthy: "Several sources familiar with the inner workings of the organization say that it devolved into a competition over who can call the better play, and both want the credit when things go right." https://t.co/z1vH5TnQrn
— Zach Kruse (@zachkruse2) November 29, 2018Lengthy SI piece worth the time. Basically concludes plenty of blame to go around and MM is dead man walking.
I probably only read half the article as it was too depressing to continue. Unfortunately for MM, if he and AR can no longer co-exist and get the best out of eachother, MM is going to be the one gone, not AR. We've seen what this team is like when AR is not out there. Anytime Rodgers has been out, it's pretty much proven that the primary reason the Pack has been successful this decade is AR and not MM.
It would have been nice if these guys could have won another title or 2 more together, but it just wasn't in the cards. I think AR is still capable of winning a title, but not without a coach that he truly believes in.
This makes me so sad.........how did it happen?? Is Aaron that big of a diva??? Something has to happen....I really thought last year when all the coaches were gone it would be onto the super bowl......not this......i’m Just so sad. Now what woman would nip this shit in the bud....is it just a manly balls thing?? A competition really??? Would NEVER HAVE THAT WITH A WOMAN. and I seem to remember that a woman in the NCAA basketball world had MORE wins then any male coach right?? Why not a woman coach??? 
