Pikes Peak posted:Condi! Get here before she turns the Browns around
Yes...yes..... 
#12 is not a diva...highly intelligent people just have a problem with dim ones.
Chongo posted:“It’s an insane level of control,” says one person close to the organization. “No fun, it’s all about the Packer brand and being a vice president. The most important people in the organization are the VPs. The players and all that, that comes later.”
This type of mentality works well...if you are winning consistently. The minute you stop winning, people revolt.
Sounds like a former player with sour grapes...::cough:: Greg Jennings ::cough::
Pikes Peak posted:
and oh my gosh....it’s true...he IS A DIVA.... adj. pronounced (DEE-VAH)- 1.to describe a person who exudes great style and personality with confidence and expresses their own style and not letting others influence who they are or want to be. 2. A person whose character makes them stands out from the rest. 3. Noun; a person's title in a group of friends or in society that is popular or famous and who many people try to copy. 4. A person who tries to achieve what they want and who do not let people get in their way, and doing so with style and class. 
Tavis Smiley posted:Henry posted:I'm in. If any of the above stuff is true this team is ****ed anyways.
Also, chock me up and not a fan of Russ Ball.
I agree from what we as fans have heard. But what do we really know about the guy? I remember Rodgers correcting Mike and Mike when they incorrectly said Ball was hired as GM, and he said it with disdain Imo, but why is the dude so hated?
1) He was the cap guy in NO, a time when they resided in cap hell.
2) A salary guy that thinks he can be a GM is Jerry Jones/Danny Snyderbrenner territory.
If he was trying out his GM legs under TT then it's pretty easy to see why the drafts dropped off so hard.
What we all suspected about Murphy sure sounds like reality. If he turns things over to Glorpenfloss, fine, he can suck Goodell wank all he wants. If not, then you've got the full Snyderbrenner situation.
At no time should anything be more important than what's happening on the football field. Ever.
As far as the McVince and Rodgers show, I think there's a bullshit river flowing somewhere. But, if that scenario being reported is true and Golooly doesn't have full juice this team is ****ed beyond ****ed.
and oh my gosh....it’s true...he IS A DIVA....
Technically, he's a divo, since Italian is a gendered language.
/pedantic bastard
Just a hunch. Harlan hates Murphy more than Rodgers hates McCarthy.
The fact Mike wasn’t broomed two weeks ago is really concerning. He’s going to be fired. He should have been fired. That the brass wanted to see how things played out tells me they aren’t paying attention to plain sight.
Ron Zook says Josh Jackson might return punts this Sunday.
If that shit happens in week 12 when he’s been the best returner on the roster then **** every coach in Green Bay.
Great points by several posters. I think the article indicates (without explicitly saying it) that the real problem is really at the top. TT sticking around about 3 years too long and becoming a hermit-like dictator by ignoring staff, MM feeling threatened enough to get rid of Van Pelt, and the fact that there are three guys with equal power that report to Murphy are all indications of a culture that is set up by ineffective leadership at the top.
It needs to be blown up and a new administrative structure put in place. Ideally, that would mean Murphy as well.
That would be my one fear is losing Pettine if a new HC wants to bring in someone else.
By the way, there's always been a rumor that the Packers almost traded for Marshawn Lynch but didn't want to give up AJ Hawk.
https://thepowersweep.com/blog...rshawn-lynch-aj-hawk
ChilliJon posted:Just a hunch. Harlan hates Murphy more than Rodgers hates McCarthy.
More than Favre hates Thompson?
Close. But Murphy loves Favre. I mean. Murphy REALLY loves Favre. And never, ever dismiss the level of love Murphy threw at Favre.
The article to me had several red flags. The fact that it seems it's become a "mine's-bigger-than-yours" argument over whose play is the right one; the fact that MM can call a play three times in a game and never see it run once indicates a level of FU-ness that should have been reined in long ago; and the fact that a certain complacency set in and "the brand" became more important than "the team" after winning the SB and in the playoffs year after year. Any way you look at it, someone has to take over who gets Rodgers to stop being the diva, get everyone worrying more about the team than its brand -- you take care of the team and the brand will take care of itself -- and shake up 1265 so it's no longer a complacent nor a restrictive place to play. Gutterbutts? We'll see, but with Murphy also calling the shots the responsibility may be too spread out to be effective.
ChilliJon posted:The fact Mike wasn’t broomed two weeks ago is really concerning. He’s going to be fired. He should have been fired. That the brass wanted to see how things played out tells me they aren’t paying attention to plain sight.
Yeah like the three too many years with Capers and TT still employed???
ChilliJon posted:The fact Mike wasn’t broomed two weeks ago is really concerning. He’s going to be fired. He should have been fired. That the brass wanted to see how things played out tells me they aren’t paying attention to plain sight.
Maybe to some yes but that is not how the Packers operate they don't make those kinds of changes midseason they just don't. Not saying he shouldn't be $hi* canned only saying that is not how things are done in GB.
Agree, it’s what we don’t do is what we do.
The SI article was very damning of MM in so many ways. I wonder if his decision to have Clements become OC may have been an attempt on his part to divorce himself from the back and forth/tension with Rodgers. If so, that is not a bad idea. His pick of Clements was, in hindsight, a poor decision. But he should have tried again and picked a new OC instead of going back to the way things were and continue to be today. He's probably too paranoid though, especially with how Van Pelt was handled. His "scrub-brush" approach to the playbook and philosophy is not doing it. The idea of going for more shot plays instead of moving chains may affect the way the opponent's defense plays, but it sure hurts the Packers defense by not sustaining drives. And finally, Rodgers needs to check his own ego at the door. What a mess.
the fact that MM can call a play three times in a game and never see it run once indicates a level of FU-ness that should have been reined in long ago
This.
I don't care if it Rodgers, Brees, Brady, or whomever. You start ignoring your HC and play caller and seemingly openly defy him, that shit should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago.
Fandame posted:The article to me had several red flags. The fact that it seems it's become a "mine's-bigger-than-yours" argument over whose play is the right one; the fact that MM can call a play three times in a game and never see it run once indicates a level of FU-ness that should have been reined in long ago; and the fact that a certain complacency set in and "the brand" became more important than "the team" after winning the SB and in the playoffs year after year. Any way you look at it, someone has to take over who gets Rodgers to stop being the diva, get everyone worrying more about the team than its brand -- you take care of the team and the brand will take care of itself -- and shake up 1265 so it's no longer a complacent nor a restrictive place to play. Gutterbutts? We'll see, but with Murphy also calling the shots the responsibility may be too spread out to be effective.
Sounds like Boyle and Kizer are doing more coaching than McVince on gameday.
Is Murphy hamstringing Gute's job description as GM? Just what can Gute do as far as firing staff goes? Would Murphy block Gute from firing MM? If so, there are too many cooks in the kitchen at 1265. Let Gute run things and then keep Ball at arms length from being able to make any personnel decisions with the team.
Henry posted:Fandame posted:The article to me had several red flags. The fact that it seems it's become a "mine's-bigger-than-yours" argument over whose play is the right one; the fact that MM can call a play three times in a game and never see it run once indicates a level of FU-ness that should have been reined in long ago; and the fact that a certain complacency set in and "the brand" became more important than "the team" after winning the SB and in the playoffs year after year. Any way you look at it, someone has to take over who gets Rodgers to stop being the diva, get everyone worrying more about the team than its brand -- you take care of the team and the brand will take care of itself -- and shake up 1265 so it's no longer a complacent nor a restrictive place to play. Gutterbutts? We'll see, but with Murphy also calling the shots the responsibility may be too spread out to be effective.
Sounds like Boyle and Kizer are doing more coaching than McVince on gameday.
Is that good?
I think some of you are reading too much into the "power structure". I don't think Murphy would keep any coach or hire any coach that his GM did not want. I don't think this move was about hamstringing the GM, I think 1) Murphy didn't believe MM was the problem and didn't want a young GM to overreact and clean house if it wasn't necessary (in his eyes) and/or 2) Murphy wanted to make sure there was no disconnect between the HC and GM, no shutting out the HC or not listening to the roster he wants. I don't think Murphy would/will make any move that Gute isn't on board with 100%. Maybe Gute doesn't officially have "final say" on the HC, but I think Murphy will follow his lead just as he follows Goodell's.
Grave Digger posted:I think some of you are reading too much into the "power structure". I don't think Murphy would keep any coach or hire any coach that his GM did not want. I don't think this move was about hamstringing the GM, I think 1) Murphy didn't believe MM was the problem and didn't want a young GM to overreact and clean house if it wasn't necessary (in his eyes) and/or 2) Murphy wanted to make sure there was no disconnect between the HC and GM, no shutting out the HC or not listening to the roster he wants. I don't think Murphy would/will make any move that Gute isn't on board with 100%. Maybe Gute doesn't officially have "final say" on the HC, but I think Murphy will follow his lead just as he follows Goodell's.
I agree with this, If you look at big picture, PR standpoint, they named a street after MM for chriss sakes. you can't just blow him out the door.
“Things like (naming the street) — you say, ‘This isn’t normal. They may take that sign down at any moment,'” McCarthy said. “This business that you’re in is not always that nice.”
Don't really see any rational justification for the change in power structure. If Murphy is concerned that the GM won't exercise proper judgment then he needs to find one that he does trust. The previous structure that Harlan put in place served the franchise well and needs to be restored.
Grave Digger posted:I think some of you are reading too much into the "power structure". I don't think Murphy would keep any coach or hire any coach that his GM did not want. I don't think this move was about hamstringing the GM, I think 1) Murphy didn't believe MM was the problem and didn't want a young GM to overreact and clean house if it wasn't necessary (in his eyes) and/or 2) Murphy wanted to make sure there was no disconnect between the HC and GM, no shutting out the HC or not listening to the roster he wants. I don't think Murphy would/will make any move that Gute isn't on board with 100%. Maybe Gute doesn't officially have "final say" on the HC, but I think Murphy will follow his lead just as he follows Goodell's.
It's anybody's guess how much weight Murhph puts on Gutekunst's opinion. What you're saying in effect is that Murphy has appointed himself GM and Gutekunst is really just a personnel guy. That, IMO, is "hamstringing" the GM. If he thought Gutekunst was too young or inexperienced he should have selected someone else as GM. The structure sucks.
packerboi posted:the fact that MM can call a play three times in a game and never see it run once indicates a level of FU-ness that should have been reined in long ago
This.
I don't care if it Rodgers, Brees, Brady, or whomever. You start ignoring your HC and play caller and seemingly openly defy him, that shit should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago.
Nearly every down/play has a run or pass option. Every pass play has multiple options. To know for certain that Rodgers deliberately did not run the play called would be difficult. He could easily say what 'he' saw presnap and as the play unfolded and then did what he did. How do you question a 1st ballot HOF without hard evidence to contradict his statements?
michiganjoe posted:Don't really see any rational justification for the change in power structure.
McCarthy has the SB title and 8 straight playoff appearances.
Giving him a 1 yr deal, and the shared leadership ensured keeping him at least the year to see if he could right the ship with a healthy AR, without concern of a new GM looking over his shoulder.
I fully expect the structure to change back to a more traditional one with Gutekunst taking the lead.
Murphy may not announce any actual change... we'll just notice the new norm in 3-4 years and not know when the change actually occurred.
Hungry5 posted:Nearly every down/play has a run or pass option. Every pass play has multiple options. To know for certain that Rodgers deliberately did not run the play called would be difficult. He could easily say what 'he' saw presnap and as the play unfolded and then did what he did. How do you question a 1st ballot HOF without hard evidence to contradict his statements?
Why I said seemingly.
To check out of a play is one thing. To have your HC and play caller call the same one 3 times in the same game and for this SI piece to write about it, likely suggests it's not something as simple as a pre snap look Rodgers didn't like and it having nothing to do with his ego and showing up or ignoring MM.
The same article speaks in detail about dueling egos between MM and AR. The above sounds like a tangible example.
I would add in McVince is absent for gameplan setup only to add in plays on game day. I don't get the fact Boyle is running over the McVince to tell him what Rodgers is thinking when calling plays. Is that normal? Sure seems like a ****ed up way to keep the flow of the game going and get plays called in with any accuracy.
McVince's management sucks.
Ubetcha posted:It's anybody's guess how much weight Murhph puts on Gutekunst's opinion. What you're saying in effect is that Murphy has appointed himself GM and Gutekunst is really just a personnel guy. That, IMO, is "hamstringing" the GM. If he thought Gutekunst was too young or inexperienced he should have selected someone else as GM. The structure sucks.
Saying Murphy appointment himself GM makes it sound like he makes decisions beyond hiring and firing the coach. My understanding is that Gute has all the same control as any other GM, he just can't fire the head coach. That's not to say he will get stuck with a HC he doesn't want, that has not happened and likely won't happen. Gute was reportedly on-board with this structure. As far as Ball's place in this scheme, it sounds like he negotiates with players the GM decides to pursue, makes recommendations for roster moves to keep the cap in line, and supervisors all the minutia of football operations so the GM can focus on roster building.
Named to his new position on Jan. 8, 2018, Ball brings a vast array of experience to the Packers’ front office and is highly involved in all team decisions both on and off the playing field. He is responsible for negotiating player contracts and managing the salary cap, in addition to the daily supervision of football-administration departments including equipment, video, corporate travel, player engagement, family programs and fields.
So what you have is a GM that has full control, a cap guy that handles negotiations and makes recommendations while managing all the non-roster football operations stuff, and a HC that just can't be fired by the GM, but still relies entirely on him for his roster. Explain how exactly Gute is "hamstrung"? If anything this structure has freed him up to focus almost ENTIRELY on building the roster...there's no bullshit administrative stuff he has to do with corporate travel or field maintenance. Also 17 other NFL have the same structure. Pittsburgh for instance uses this structure with a much more experienced GM and they function just fine.
We have no idea if he's hamstrung yet. My concern is having all these job distinctions in place but only when it suits a certain VP.
packerboi posted:Why I said seemingly.
To check out of a play is one thing. To have your HC and play caller call the same one 3 times in the same game and for this SI piece to write about it,
Understood.
There is the "We do what we do" aspect to all of this. If PlayCaller is calling the same play and QB keeps checking out of it, maybe stop calling the play or ask the QB why aren't you running what I'm calling?
Is Murphy only accountable to the executive committee? Because even being fans, those guys must look at the finances first and it would be hard to indict Murphy on the state of those.
If the offense was still operating at the level we've become accustomed to we'd have pages of threads devoted to Zook's firing (and the Packers would be in the playoff hunt).
I just think the adaptive nature of the offense has run into its design limitations. The egos involved may preclude a fix ie McCarthy's plays aren't creative enough; Rodgers' aren't conservative enough. Are they involved in the team success enough to get past "I see what I see."?
I guess we don't truly know how decisions are weighted or if Gutekunst is hamstrung. Bottom line is we need quality at each position : GM, Cap Guy, and HC.
I have no reason to believe Russ Ball isn't doing a good job with the cap/contracts, have faith in Brian Gutekunst so far.....Let's start by getting a good Head Coach.