all this MM/AR play calling biz could be put to rest real easy - let AR call his own game once. see what happens. can't be any worse, could be better.
If that SI article is to be believed then yeah it's definitely time for a divorce with McCarthy. Perhaps all of these was the impetus for Murphy making these big changes, taking a more direct management approach of these kinds of administrative shortcomings. There were a lot of anonymous sources though in that article, I'm always skeptical of anonymous sources. The article makes it sound like the organizational dysfunction has been a problem for a few years now, why didn't these sources come forward before now? I think there's probably some truth to parts of it, but a lot of it sounds overly dramatized because the team is losing. It's the Greg Jennings thing, we seem to only hear from Jennings when the team is losing and he feels justified ripping his former team.
Tdog posted:all this MM/AR play calling biz could be put to rest real easy - let AR call his own game once. see what happens. can't be any worse, could be better.
AKAIK, in 2:00, Rodgers is calling the plays.
How many games has Rodgers been healthy? Who the hell is calling the read option with Rodgers keeping the ball?
Tdog posted:all this MM/AR play calling biz could be put to rest real easy - let AR call his own game once. see what happens. can't be any worse, could be better.
Jones would probably get zero touches.
Henry posted:We have no idea if he's hamstrung yet. My concern is having all these job distinctions in place but only when it suits a certain VP.
That's probably where all the hamstring issues originate.
Wasn't there an eleventy-billion page thread here a few years back about stretching?
Goldie posted:Pikes Peak posted:Condi! Get here before she turns the Browns around
Yes...yes.....
I guess the dream has died
Grave Digger posted:Ubetcha posted:It's anybody's guess how much weight Murhph puts on Gutekunst's opinion. What you're saying in effect is that Murphy has appointed himself GM and Gutekunst is really just a personnel guy. That, IMO, is "hamstringing" the GM. If he thought Gutekunst was too young or inexperienced he should have selected someone else as GM. The structure sucks.
Saying Murphy appointment himself GM makes it sound like he makes decisions beyond hiring and firing the coach. My understanding is that Gute has all the same control as any other GM, he just can't fire the head coach. That's not to say he will get stuck with a HC he doesn't want, that has not happened and likely won't happen. Gute was reportedly on-board with this structure. As far as Ball's place in this scheme, it sounds like he negotiates with players the GM decides to pursue, makes recommendations for roster moves to keep the cap in line, and supervisors all the minutia of football operations so the GM can focus on roster building.
Named to his new position on Jan. 8, 2018, Ball brings a vast array of experience to the Packers’ front office and is highly involved in all team decisions both on and off the playing field. He is responsible for negotiating player contracts and managing the salary cap, in addition to the daily supervision of football-administration departments including equipment, video, corporate travel, player engagement, family programs and fields.
So what you have is a GM that has full control, a cap guy that handles negotiations and makes recommendations while managing all the non-roster football operations stuff, and a HC that just can't be fired by the GM, but still relies entirely on him for his roster. Explain how exactly Gute is "hamstrung"? If anything this structure has freed him up to focus almost ENTIRELY on building the roster...there's no bullshit administrative stuff he has to do with corporate travel or field maintenance. Also 17 other NFL have the same structure. Pittsburgh for instance uses this structure with a much more experienced GM and they function just fine.
I'm saying this in the sense that traditionally the GM has power and discretion as to who's Head Coach (hire/fire). That's what full control is. I can only speculate as to who's word weighs the heaviest in this arrangement and that's essentially the problem. When things aren't going to plan, who's giving feedback to the HC? If you're saying it's Gutekunst, then there's no teeth in what he says, according to the structure. Maybe it all works like clockwork, but the results and what's being said tells me otherwise.
Brian Gutekunst, hired Sunday to replace Ted Thompson, will have complete control over the roster but won't have full authority to hire and fire the coach. That now belongs to team president Mark Murphy, the Packers announced Monday.
The Packers also announced that Russ Ball, who was passed over for the GM job, will return and was promoted to executive vice president/football operations. A source told ESPN that Ball received a raise but his duties will remain the same -- negotiating contracts and managing the salary cap, chief among them.
Gutekunst, Ball and coach Mike McCarthy now all report to Murphy.
Even though Murphy said last week that the new general manager would make decisions on the coach, a source said that change was made to improve the dialogue between the personnel department and the coach -- something that had deteriorated of late.
GBP Name Brian Gutekunst GM - Rob Demovsky
Rodgers is now a Diva eh? Ok.....
Please tell me what person on the planet that just received the richest contract in NFL history while his HC got a 1-year "prove-it" deal wouldn't be acting the same way?
They're not in sync. It happens. All HC's have a shelf life. Nature of the Beast. The org will get on the same page & they'll start winning again.
I hope Pettine gets to stick around. His defense has been amazing at times this year without any real horses.
Brainwashed Boris posted:
I hope Pettine gets to stick around. His defense has been amazing at times this year without any real horses.
As long as he can boot Winston Moss...
I'm tired of that wart on Packers' asshole.
I think the point wasn't to neuter the GM to the point where the HC doesn't listen to him, I think it was to empower the HC to feel as though his needs are being met. Likely because the HC went to Murphy and said the GM wasn't meeting his needs and he could deliver a championship if they were being met. The GM can't ignore the HC anymore and if the HC wants roster moves made he can't ignore the GM. And it's not as if there's no looming threat to his security, MM wasn't given unlimited power, he is still accountable to someone and coming into this year he was on a 2 year prove-it deal. Murphy has also said that although he ultimately has final say, he's not going to be making decisions on his own, it's going to be a discussion with the GM. So I guarantee MM realizes there IS accountability with the GM.
But there isn't accountability to the GM. Not even close. Murphy holds that control plain and simple. In fact, I'm willing to bet Mcvince put that condition in and Murphy was all too happy to oblige.
I don't like Murphy, never have. That shit with Ball is bigger black mark on TT than any other perceived failing. Who exactly was manning those last few drafts?
I don’t think MM had the juice to demand anything coming off the worst season in a decade. He likely had enough good will built up to get a 1 year extension, but I think Murphy told everyone there wouldn’t be this left not talking to the right hand shit. I’m not giving Murphy credit for being decisive, I think he was shitting his pants and called Art Rooney for advice about what to do.
packerboi posted:the fact that MM can call a play three times in a game and never see it run once indicates a level of FU-ness that should have been reined in long ago
This.
I don't care if it Rodgers, Brees, Brady, or whomever. You start ignoring your HC and play caller and seemingly openly defy him, that shit should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago.
How would it be nipped in the bud? Would AR be benched? For Hundley or anyone else? Fine AR? $500 for the 1st time he ignored the play call? $1000 the next time and $5000 the 3rd time? Face it, Rodgers has more power than MM and there is nothing MM can do about it. And the Packers let it happen. Just like with TOG.
The media made Rodgers kingshit and he believes he is.
MM bloopers.....get em while they're hot!
ammo posted:packerboi posted:the fact that MM can call a play three times in a game and never see it run once indicates a level of FU-ness that should have been reined in long ago
This.
Face it, Rodgers has more power than MM and there is nothing MM can do about it. And the Packers let it happen. Just like with TOG.
Attachments
I'm not sure how it could be prevented. In every sport, the best player on the team basically has the majority of the power over the coach.
Exception being the Patriots. BB proved his worth the year Brady went down. Yet sounds like Kraft has sided with Brady as well (see the JG trade to SF).
GBFanForLife posted:The media made Rodgers kingshit and he believes he is.
Please explain how the media built Rodgers belief in himself.
He believes he can play with his head up his ass.
I think you have your head up your ass.
From the piece:
Of the team’s three units, the defense is the only one that can be counted on for a consistent performance. It’s not always great and it’s not always good enough to win, but first-year coordinator Mike Pettine’s group plays hard every week, gets after the quarterback and makes the best of whatever personnel deficiencies it faces each given week.
Agree, and shows just how far the offense has fallen and the defense has risen.
The anti-Rodgers sentiment here is laughable. Actually kind of pathetic.
GBFanForLife posted:He believes he can play with his head up his ass.
Well that clearly explains the media connection.
antiworst posted:The anti-Rodgers sentiment here is laughable. Actually kind of pathetic.
Probably just his Mom and Brother trolling.
antiworst posted:The anti-Rodgers sentiment here is laughable. Actually kind of pathetic.
What part of Pettine's efforts is anti-Rodgers? What part of that article is anti-Rodgers? Or are you talking about the lunchpailers who think McVince's tough guy act and shitty management actually wins games?
I'd go after Lincoln Riley. He doesn't care about defense, but so what, Pettine does.
He'll be available after they get beat by ALA on the 29th. Packers play the 30th, a few days later it's a new year and a new HC.
He would love coaching Aaron Rodgers, and Rodgers would love the flooded passing route concepts.
MM has to go NOW because the NFL isn't just about football. The Packers are deep into a multi-multi million dollar "entertainment zone". And it's Christmas time and the Packer Pro shop needs to move a lot of logo junk.
We're two years into horrible, awful football and the Packers damn well need to give the fans a reason to stay interested and buying stuff.
Firing MM would do just that.
Packers should let McCarthy go now for no other reason than humane reasons. It is torture watching him in news conferences with the media asking about his future and how he is to handle it knowing full well he is done. Rodgers knows a change is coming and is almost coy in his reponse when he is asked aobut possible changes.
This would also give the front office a head start to hiring his replacement. Murphy should do the right thing and end this now. Nothing in the next month is going to change the inevitable.
Finish out the season, and clean house. You can't demand the new guy keeps any coach. Would be great to keep Pettine, but you have to let a head coach make his own decisions on all assistants.
