It seems Jones is more plugged into lockerrooms than most in the media. He’s broken some stories recently, likely getting info directly from players.
To me staff changes will depend on how we finish the season and what positions finish strong. Maybe Moss goes because of the poor production at OLB, maybe Zook. Who knows. Gute will have hard choices and although Murphy has final say on the HC, I think if Gute says they need to make a change then Murphy will listen.
I think it's fair to say that Mike is coaching for his job the next few weeks. If they don't come out this week ready to play and play they whole game at a high level (on O) the fans will speak loud and clear. The internet and media concern is quiet, a booing crowd will echo from coast. Play well for the rest of the season and my guess is he stays. Stink up a game or 2 against these also rans and he's gone.
its one thing to lose to the top level teams, Cards, Jets and Lions not so much.
I like Mike but as they say, what have you done for me lately.
Adams had 1 yr with Jones, the year Adams was hurt.
Adams knows Jones is in the media .
No way Adams is going to tell a media guy that he thinks his HC is dead man walking.
Fandame posted:If MM is kept, Rodgers will explode. It would take a new OC that Rodgers respects and he can get excited about the scheme.
What’s he gonna do, take his $30 million and go home? Gute gets to decide who coaches. AR’s job is to get on board and start playing like the highest paid player in the game.
excalibur posted:Will Zook return with MM? That is the problem, MM has bad assistants and keeps 'em around.
Fandame posted:The other thing that would have to happen is that Zook has to go, along with any other dead wood in the assistant offices. Moss, probably, and others. Do you see MM willfully cutting his staff?
Both excellent points.
I could see MM staying but with caveats, the biggest one being overhauling the coaching staff. And I'm not sure that this would be the right time for doing that.
Hungry5 posted:Adams had 1 yr with Jones, the year Adams was hurt.
Adams knows Jones is in the media .
No way Adams is going to tell a media guy that he thinks his HC is dead man walking.
It sounds like they’re friends, that’s not ridiculous to think. It may be he thinks MM is done, but it doesn’t mean he’s wrong that they’re not performing. Both can be true.
If you overhaul the staff but keep Mike, it better work or you're overhauling again next year. And try to find good coaches when they know there is a good chance it will only be for 1 year
Floridarob posted:I wonder sometimes if Rodgers is so anal on some things that if the WR runs a 5 yard out and it is supposed to be a 3 yard out that Rodgers throws it to where he supposed to be instead of where he is to prove a point.
I would hope that is what he does, right? Rodgers is throwing the ball during the route (expecting it to be run correctly), not waiting till the end of the route to throw the ball.
I seriously wonder sometimes if folks have any idea how the game is played before they speculate on why someone at the top of the game is purposely trying to **** things up
I’m with James Jones.
7-9, 7-9, 7-9. That’s Sean Payton from 2014-16. Now he has the team poised to make a nice postseason run.
El-Ka-Bong posted:Floridarob posted:I wonder sometimes if Rodgers is so anal on some things that if the WR runs a 5 yard out and it is supposed to be a 3 yard out that Rodgers throws it to where he supposed to be instead of where he is to prove a point.
I would hope that is what he does, right? Rodgers is throwing the ball during the route (expecting it to be run correctly), not waiting till the end of the route to throw the ball.
I seriously wonder sometimes if folks have any idea how the game is played before they speculate on why someone at the top of the game is purposely trying to **** things up
The physics of spite.
In the end, I believe all this speculation about Rodgers and McVince is way overblown. McVince needs to hit the bricks but more because his management as a HC sucks rather than the supposed over the top soap opera supposedly happening on the field.
Rodgers isn't a goldbricker cancer and McVince isn't a complete stooge. Just time to move on.
The biggest dolt in this whole situation is Jed Hughes from korn ferry.
JJ is right about one thing, the grass isn't always greener. The Giants shipped Coughlin after a couple mediocre seasons and it was the same thing we're hearing now, wasting his talent, he's been around too long, is not creative enough, stale, etc. Except McAdoo and Shurmur have been even worse.
Not saying MM should stay, but it doesn't mean whoever replaces him will be any better. Worst case is we move on from MM and the new HC ends up being a turd and we get a revolving coaching carousel in Rodgers final years.
I'd be fine taking the chance though.
bdplant posted:Fandame posted:If MM is kept, Rodgers will explode. It would take a new OC that Rodgers respects and he can get excited about the scheme.
What’s he gonna do, take his $30 million and go home? Gute gets to decide who coaches. AR’s job is to get on board and start playing like the highest paid player in the game.
Yes, he could take his $30 mil after next year and go home. Guys retire at his age all the time. I think this transition to playing without Jordy, a new QB coach, no Cobb, no Geronimo, has soured him on the business of the game. Yes, Rodgers is the best but he had some pretty darn good help all the years he's played -- until now. Today he's got rookies in MVS, ESB, JMoore and one security blanket in Adams, new TEs the past couple of years, two young RBs of which one can be dicey on blocking, an OL that is almost always band-aided together or missing at least one key piece, etc., etc. He's missing his security blankets, the guys who helped make him the best, and he has not adjusted well. His body language sucks and he does not interact with his teammates as he once did. If he really cared about playing like the best, he'd go through his progressions, take what's given, and help improve his teammates. Several analysts have said it's not only MM's scheme, but it's also AR passing up on what's there for whatever reason. It's a team game, but sometimes AR is acting like it's all about him.
The worst that can happen would be for MM to get fired and then AR retires. We just went back to 1968 except in that case Lombardi walked and Bart got old.
Fandame posted:bdplant posted:Fandame posted:If MM is kept, Rodgers will explode. It would take a new OC that Rodgers respects and he can get excited about the scheme.
What’s he gonna do, take his $30 million and go home? Gute gets to decide who coaches. AR’s job is to get on board and start playing like the highest paid player in the game.
Yes, he could take his $30 mil after next year and go home. Guys retire at his age all the time. I think this transition to playing without Jordy, a new QB coach, no Cobb, no Geronimo, has soured him on the business of the game. Yes, Rodgers is the best but he had some pretty darn good help all the years he's played -- until now. Today he's got rookies in MVS, ESB, JMoore and one security blanket in Adams, new TEs the past couple of years, two young RBs of which one can be dicey on blocking, an OL that is almost always band-aided together or missing at least one key piece, etc., etc. He's missing his security blankets, the guys who helped make him the best, and he has not adjusted well. His body language sucks and he does not interact with his teammates as he once did. If he really cared about playing like the best, he'd go through his progressions, take what's given, and help improve his teammates. Several analysts have said it's not only MM's scheme, but it's also AR passing up on what's there for whatever reason. It's a team game, but sometimes AR is acting like it's all about him.
He's played with plenty of "security blankets" and broken in new ones. It's pretty silly to all of sudden say it's the cast of players that makes his arm strength, accuracy and feet superior. If Rodgers was smiling and rah-rahing when another drive failed he would be getting shit for not caring enough. I don't know where the lack of interaction part comes from either.
Could it be the whole thing is just stale and they should've started over with both a new HC and GM?
I seriously don't get the projection that's happening on this board. The issues with McVince became prevalent when Rodgers wasn't even part of the equation, now he's the problem.
Pikes Peak posted:Play well for the rest of the season and my guess is he stays.
Sure hope the organization has set the bar a lot higher than that. Nothing less than an appearance in the conference championship game sounds about right to me.
vitaflo posted:JJ is right about one thing, the grass isn't always greener. The Giants shipped Coughlin after a couple mediocre seasons and it was the same thing we're hearing now, wasting his talent, he's been around too long, is not creative enough, stale, etc. Except McAdoo and Shurmur have been even worse.
Not saying MM should stay, but it doesn't mean whoever replaces him will be any better. Worst case is we move on from MM and the new HC ends up being a turd and we get a revolving coaching carousel in Rodgers final years.
I'd be fine taking the chance though.
The Coughlin example is a very good one to me. I think at the time perhaps Coughlin's hard nosed approach may have worn thin with the players but you cannot argue with his results. I also am not saying a change doesn't need to take place but the organization is going to look at things and make the decision if making the change is truly the best thing to do. Regadless of what happens we are going to have to trust Gute on this one.
Henry posted:El-Ka-Bong posted:Floridarob posted:I wonder sometimes if Rodgers is so anal on some things that if the WR runs a 5 yard out and it is supposed to be a 3 yard out that Rodgers throws it to where he supposed to be instead of where he is to prove a point.
I would hope that is what he does, right? Rodgers is throwing the ball during the route (expecting it to be run correctly), not waiting till the end of the route to throw the ball.
I seriously wonder sometimes if folks have any idea how the game is played before they speculate on why someone at the top of the game is purposely trying to **** things up
The physics of spite.
In the end, I believe all this speculation about Rodgers and McVince is way overblown. McVince needs to hit the bricks but more because his management as a HC sucks rather than the supposed over the top soap opera supposedly happening on the field.
Rodgers isn't a goldbricker cancer and McVince isn't a complete stooge. Just time to move on.
I'm confident that AR is pretty frustrated with winding up on his ass after every key third down, so I think you can pretty much dismiss the over-analyzing of his body language and facial expressions on the field. I think MM's frustrated too. He was actually a pretty good choice when he was given the helm of the Packers. As you say, it's just time. The offense is stale and apparently too complicated to be mastered by an unbalanced blend of rookie talent. The real mess may be the organizational cluster-f**k that Murphy's created. At some point every HC needs to be motivated to improve and change with the times. A real GM can provide that. I get the feeling that Murphy's silos are just clanging around out there on their own. If he doesn't undo this mess maybe he's the one that needs to go.
What fandame said. The problem is the coach and the horrible useless assistants with a few exceptions like Pettine
The couple 'grass ain't always greener' posts above make some good points. Another point is the Packer brass seems to be more into the making money business than the winning business and a big part of that is PR. If they factor in public opinion, M3 needs to go.
Packers probably win the next 2 to get to 6-6-1 and still in the hunt. Then they'll get crushed by CHI and that, will be that.
Likely finishing 8-7-1 with Rodgers starting every game. Don't care about the injuries to others, McCarthy and staff coached through a slew of injuries in 2010.
One reason McCarthy may be back regardless of the above? Promising future. On the other hand, maybe Gutekunst wants someone else to lead this group.
Hope the next Head Coach realizes there are vast route options other than just boundary routes 
Hope the next Head Coach can get his $30M diva QB to make the easy play.
Failed 3rd down conversion #2. pic.twitter.com/Sox57scDmE
— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) November 27, 2018
Packdog posted:Hope the next Head Coach realizes there are vast route options other than just boundary routes
The Packers offense has transitioned from curls and slants to a quick outs and flats especially once Jordy left. The back shoulder passes are not there except to Adams due to the fact the rookies haven't had enough time to perfect the timing with Rodgers. Since Cobb has been out, the drag routes are gone too. The OL is not giving enough protection for the deeper routes to develop. With all that said, there is plenty the offense can do to be more consistent and put up more points than they have been.
chickenboy posted:The couple 'grass ain't always greener' posts above make some good points. Another point is the Packer brass seems to be more into the making money business than the winning business and a big part of that is PR. If they factor in public opinion, M3 needs to go.
I guess I'm not clear who M3 is? Or who M1 or M2 are? We have an M3 and a CM3, that's too confusing.
Mike Holmgren, Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy
I think I get it
Ubetcha posted:Henry posted:El-Ka-Bong posted:Floridarob posted:I wonder sometimes if Rodgers is so anal on some things that if the WR runs a 5 yard out and it is supposed to be a 3 yard out that Rodgers throws it to where he supposed to be instead of where he is to prove a point.
I would hope that is what he does, right? Rodgers is throwing the ball during the route (expecting it to be run correctly), not waiting till the end of the route to throw the ball.
I seriously wonder sometimes if folks have any idea how the game is played before they speculate on why someone at the top of the game is purposely trying to **** things up
The physics of spite.
In the end, I believe all this speculation about Rodgers and McVince is way overblown. McVince needs to hit the bricks but more because his management as a HC sucks rather than the supposed over the top soap opera supposedly happening on the field.
Rodgers isn't a goldbricker cancer and McVince isn't a complete stooge. Just time to move on.
I'm confident that AR is pretty frustrated with winding up on his ass after every key third down, so I think you can pretty much dismiss the over-analyzing of his body language and facial expressions on the field. I think MM's frustrated too. He was actually a pretty good choice when he was given the helm of the Packers. As you say, it's just time. The offense is stale and apparently too complicated to be mastered by an unbalanced blend of rookie talent. The real mess may be the organizational cluster-f**k that Murphy's created. At some point every HC needs to be motivated to improve and change with the times. A real GM can provide that. I get the feeling that Murphy's silos are just clanging around out there on their own. If he doesn't undo this mess maybe he's the one that needs to go.
We are in agreement across the board.
Tdog posted:Mike Holmgren, Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy
I think I get it
So is Murphy M4 and Mike Pettine M5? It would be easier if someone made a cheat sheet with all the acronyms because I must be behind.
Packdog posted:Hope the next Head Coach can get his $30M diva QB to make the easy play.
Failed 3rd down conversion #2. pic.twitter.com/Sox57scDmE
— Andy Herman (@SconnieSports) November 27, 2018
Everything's easy when you don't know what you are doing.
Grave Digger posted:Tdog posted:Mike Holmgren, Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy
I think I get it
So is Murphy M4 and Mike Pettine M5? It would be easier if someone made a cheat sheet with all the acronyms because I must be behind.
I can feel the strain of you trying too hard with this one all the way in St. Paul…
So Murphy is not M4 and Pettine is not M5?
#nomoremikes
Pikes Peak posted:#nomoremikes
As a Mike, I disagree.
Orlando Wolf posted:I’m with James Jones.
7-9, 7-9, 7-9. That’s Sean Payton from 2014-16. Now he has the team poised to make a nice postseason run.
Sean Payton is not a "We Do what we do" kind of guy.
RochNyFan posted:Pikes Peak posted:#nomoremikes
As a Mike, I disagree.
Suck it up....take one for the team.
Grave Digger posted:So Murphy is not M4 and Pettine is not M5?
I'm just trying to help. Murphy and Pettine are not the head coach.
"We do what we do," is a C-student mentality. Find something that works, and repeat ad infinitum until it works again.
chickenboy posted:The couple 'grass ain't always greener' posts above make some good points. Another point is the Packer brass seems to be more into the making money business than the winning business and a big part of that is PR. If they factor in public opinion, M3 needs to go.
I hope no organization I'm a fan of ever "factors in public opinion" when making important decisions.
Public opinion matters little within the Packers organization because it's the hardest ticket in professional sports and there isn't an oligarch atop it.
The structure of the Packers is different, but it has worked for a lot of years...that is until this recent decision to make Murphy the grand poo-bah of all the silos. Cutting your GM's nuts off is bad business.
Only way change happens is if What, Me Murphy? decides it needs to. Or his bosses, the board, tell him it needs to. Historically, the board doesn't get involved with the day to day stuff. So in a nutshell, $hit ain't changing unless WMM says so.
Grave Digger posted:Tdog posted:Mike Holmgren, Mike Sherman, Mike McCarthy
I think I get it
So is Murphy M4 and Mike Pettine M5? It would be easier if someone made a cheat sheet with all the acronyms because I must be behind.
They're like iPhones.
