So are the Pack picking Archer or Parks and Rec at 12?
Both
I'd love to see White to Green Bay but don't see how he falls to #12. I've heard Bucs are high on him and if for some reason he does drop, I don't see how the Broncos pass on him. But if he's there, I'd put him up with Oliver.
And is Oliver really have character concerns? I heard about his dust up with Applewhite b/c he was wearing a jacket but hadn't read anything other than that. And Applewhite was fired after the season, for what it's worth.
ChilliJon posted:Hockenson. Abram. Risner.
BPA that all check the need box in order. Those are 3 dream picks. Not sure Risner gets to 44 but those 3 flip the talent in GB.
Unlikely Risner even lasts until the 30th pick.
For my fellow draftniks, here's a free download from The Draft Network...lots of good analysis. You may not agree with everything, but you can't argue with something that's free... 
pkr_north posted:was listening to the nfl drive on sirius after work on my way home, they did a mock draft. the worst nightmare, no qb's taken and all the d talent gone by 12, we got jawaan taylor. somehow, i think that is how its going to go down.
Even if it turns out that way, they don't have to take Taylor there. Not that he isn't a very good tackle prospect, but if they can't trade out, and he's not their guy, then simply take the player they really want...it doesn't have to go purely on value.
How many of us thought that Kenny Clark would be the pick when the Packers had their choice of all the defensive tackles in that draft? That sure turned out well...
Packmeister posted:For my fellow draftniks, here's a free download from The Draft Network...lots of good analysis. You may not agree with everything, but you can't argue with something that's free...
Yeah, that list is shit.
I don't want a first-round TE, especially at 12. The depth is too good, IMO, and the value too low to spend that pick on the position.
I'm not gaga for Devin Bush there either but Martinez is in the final year of his contract and his liability in coverage may make it a prudent move if they want two ILBs who can run. I also don't think ILB is very deep this year.
The one position they still need a starter at is cover/free safety. A guy like Adderly, Gardner-Johnson, Thornhill, Lukas Denis, Mike Edwards or a late pick on Marvell Tell would be interesting. Josh Jackson's position could be fungible and guys like that (and maybe Darnell Savage and Will Harris) would give them back end flexibility.
JoJuan Williams, Isaiah Johnson or Lonnie Johnson could be a mid-round CB pick to pair with (or cover for an injured) King in matchups. They also have squat for depth on the back end and I think they come away with at least three d-backs in the draft. Best-case scenario is Tramon is a mentor and a sometimes dime guy.
Edge is still very much in play, especially if Z. Smith lines up all over the formation. If the team had any faith in Final-Year Fackrell when the draft is unusually deep at edge rusher also I doubt they spend the dollars on both Smiths.
The more I look at it, the more I want an extra third-round pick. That seems a good spot for their needs at O-Line, TE and maybe even RB.
And Deebo. Get Deebo Samuel for the slot. The guy will be a monster in Green Bay. He's a strong slot, good returner, can play on the outside some and be your gadget receiver. Double down and take Tony Pollard late if you want but get Deebo. 
Patriots might take Deebo at #32
Herschel:
The one position they still need a starter at is cover/free safety. A guy like Adderly, Gardner-Johnson, Thornhill, Lukas Denis, Mike Edwards or a late pick on Marvell Tell would be interesting. Josh Jackson's position could be fungible and guys like that (and maybe Darnell Savage and Will Harris) would give them back end flexibility.
I don't understand why Josh Jackson would not make a good safety. Clearly, he has a nose for the ball. He seems to know where to be on the field and I wonder if his issue at corner is that he is not particularly fast.
Didn't he have something like 4 pick 6's in his last year at Iowa? (Two against Wisconsin!)
Pretty easy to have pick 6s when Alex Hornibrook is floating them to you.
I still have high hopes for JJ. He was fantastic in preseason and early in the regular season, but was borderline awful down the stretch. I may be off my rocker, but it’s possible he hit the rookie wall and just ran out of gas. The guy can play.
I still think you have to take Ferrell, Burns, Sweat or Hockenson at 12 if they are there.
Josh Jackson is just a good football player. I think he can play CB or S.
I'm not sold on GB taking a WR high. Adams and Allison are solid on the outside. I'm a fan of Kumerow if he's given an opportunity and the three guys drafted last year have a chance to make some noise.
The OL is suddenly solid with the FA addition and the depth potential that Madison brings. A mid-round pick at OL should be fine.
Gotta get a S at 30 or R2 I'd imagine. R3 at the latest.
A playmaker at MLB would be great. Obviously Devon White would be ridiculous at 12 but I see little chance that he falls that far. He looks like Derrick Brooks to me. I could even be on board with Devin Bush at 12. Later in the draft I like Blake Cashman.
Is CB still a need? If so, Byron Murphy or Greedy Williams is in play at #29. I think they have their guy in Jaire Alexander but I don't see Kevin King as a long term starter. Guy just can't stay healthy and there is no indication that will change. And I liked Josh Jackson when he was drafted but his play last year did nothing to secure their long term future at CB.
Packers draft at #30.
Greedy will go 24-27 range (Raiders)
So if Pack wants to trade down a little they have a shot at him while picking up more draft capital. However - Raiders with 3 1st rounders could also trade UP if they think Packers are targeting him.
The draft is a weird animal. It's not even about which players will make it in the NFL - it's more about where the other 31 teams have a player rated/slotted.
Case in point....in 2011 I draft Jordy in round 9 in our fantasy draft. He had 15 TD's that year.
That's the secret to the draft.
KC drafts at 29. Do they need a CB?
I don't think you can look at JJ's rookie year and determine the future of his career. Coaches routinely talk about the jump from year 1 to year 2. The kid has instincts and the tools to get it done.
I agree, lets focus on other parts of the roster instead of the secondary year after year!!
Analytic studies show CB as being the second most important position (after QB) in football. You can NEVER have enough guys who can cover. An in-game injury to a starting CB frequently turns NFL games.
A strong pass rush significantly impacts the production of the secondary. GB has invested quite a bit of draft capital in the secondary recently. Those players need to produce while GB focuses on other areas in the draft.
Pakrz posted:The Smith brothers plus Gilbert and Fackrell (He improved a ton last season) as backups is good enough.
It would be foolish for Gute to think this way. Guys like Burns, Sweat, Ferrell, etc....can do things that the Smith Bros cannot....bend the edge and hunt with speed.
I still want to see the defensive re-build completed. Could really use a speed rusher, ILB, and the biggest "need" is Free Safety. Certainly not going to take a safety at 12, so hopefully a stud front 7 player. Going to be a good one there for the taking. But if Gute falls in love with an OL it wouldn't be disappointing.
Agreed. If I'm drafting, I'm taking an Edge guy or Hockenson at 12. My point was... if Gutenfluffer doesn't land an Edge guy at all in the draft GB will probably be okay at the position this year.
Was listening to ESPN Radio as I was driving yesterday. Not sure who the guy was but he said after looking at lots of tape the only top 10 prospect that did not excite him was Bosa. He just did not see enough great plays from him that other blue chip guys have. And that was looking at 2 years of tape. He also said many NFL scouts agreed with him. So that may be the guy that drops.
Heard the same segment it was Jim Nagy. Bosa was his reluctant “overrated” pick.
I thought it was interesting too: Every last mock draft has Bosa cemented as the #1 non QB pick, like it is written in stone without discussion, no need to explain, that is for sure the #1 non QB pick. It seems like everyone is just assuming it.
A piece on JSOline had a couple of scouts and coaches say Bosa is maxed out. What you see is what you get, nothing more.
He will be a good NFL player no matter where he is picked.
ammo posted:Was listening to ESPN Radio as I was driving yesterday. Not sure who the guy was but he said after looking at lots of tape the only top 10 prospect that did not excite him was Bosa. He just did not see enough great plays from him that other blue chip guys have. And that was looking at 2 years of tape. He also said many NFL scouts agreed with him. So that may be the guy that drops.
The guy that causes me to pause is Rashan Gary. Most people have him as a top 10 pick but his production on the field isn't even close to that.
Unless you're desperate for a QB, I cant see not taking Quinnen Williams. I like him better than Bosa or Josh Allen. BTW I think Bosa will be good much like his brother.
I agree about Gary PAKRZ. I don't see him as anywhere near a top 10 player based on his production and wouldn't even think about taking him at 12. Probably not even at 30 either.
I’m not high on either Michigan standout. Will not be happy with Gary or Bush at #12.
phaedrus posted:Herschel:
The one position they still need a starter at is cover/free safety. A guy like Adderly, Gardner-Johnson, Thornhill, Lukas Denis, Mike Edwards or a late pick on Marvell Tell would be interesting. Josh Jackson's position could be fungible and guys like that (and maybe Darnell Savage and Will Harris) would give them back end flexibility.I don't understand why Josh Jackson would not make a good safety. Clearly, he has a nose for the ball. He seems to know where to be on the field and I wonder if his issue at corner is that he is not particularly fast.
Didn't he have something like 4 pick 6's in his last year at Iowa? (Two against Wisconsin!)
He might, but even if they feel he could play it they're still short at least two d-backs: the third corner (because they play a majority in sub packages) and any sort of depth. With a guy like Gardner-Johnson or Adderly, positions could be less defined/more flexible.
You draft Hockenson at 12 if he's there. Impact player. Lewis prolly cut before season starts. Next year Graham will be gone and you will need a TE then anyway. Draft the weapon now.
I don't honestly know if Hok is better than Fant, but I do know I'd rather take either of them a few picks later than 12
Pikes Peak posted:He will be a good NFL player no matter where he is picked.
"Good" but probably not great. I'd rather draft Sweat or Burns on the edge than Bosa. I read an article where analysts say that some of the guys on the top of the big board are overrated and that the hype on them is totally wrong. Bosa, J. Taylor, Jonah Williams, Rahsaan Gary and Devin Bush all come to mind. By picking players from their positions, later in the draft, you should be able to get solid players who can contribute for a long time. So, in that vein, maybe trading down isn't such a bad idea. Maybe. There are other players, not in the top 10 on the big board who will be there at #12 but will probably be gone by pick #30, too. Dalton Risner, Ed Oliver, Kelvin Harmon, DK Metcalf, Montez Sweat and Garrett Bradbury all come to mind. Some people do not like OSU players. I feel the same about Michigan players, which makes me really suspicious of Gary and Bush. The last great players we got that went to Michigan were Desmond Howard and Charles Woodson. Hard to beat that duo and no one has come close, since.
ammo posted:Was listening to ESPN Radio as I was driving yesterday. Not sure who the guy was but he said after looking at lots of tape the only top 10 prospect that did not excite him was Bosa. He just did not see enough great plays from him that other blue chip guys have. And that was looking at 2 years of tape. He also said many NFL scouts agreed with him. So that may be the guy that drops.
If scouts/teams are saying that about Bosa they are blowing some serious smoke. I would find it hard to believe that he makes it out of the top 3 much less down to #12. If for some reason he does drop that far if I am the Packers I would pick Bosa in about 2 seconds flat.
I dont get the hype for Burns. The guy is strickly a rush linebacker and cant cover anyone. Snippet from McGinns people
Fits best as a 3-4 outside linebacker but has little or no experience dropping into coverage. “He can’t play in space,” said another scout. “Strictly an edge guy. He’s all initial quickness. He beats you with his first move. He doesn’t have much beyond that. Undersized. He’s not really physical.”
maybe in the 3rd round but before that, No Thanks-
Floridarob posted:I dont get the hype for Burns. The guy is strickly a rush linebacker and cant cover anyone. Snippet from McGinns people
Fits best as a 3-4 outside linebacker but has little or no experience dropping into coverage. “He can’t play in space,” said another scout. “Strictly an edge guy. He’s all initial quickness. He beats you with his first move. He doesn’t have much beyond that. Undersized. He’s not really physical.”
maybe in the 3rd round but before that, No Thanks-
I think they're massively underrating him. I think he's comparable to Harold Landry last year, a guy who draftniks said similar things about. He's the most natural pass rusher and the most polished pass rusher in the draft. He's not a 3 down DE, but he can always add strength, you can't teach those natural instincts for rushing off the edge.
YooperPackfan posted:I agree, lets focus on other parts of the roster instead of the secondary year after year!!
I agree but I think they still need to figure our the other safety spot and they probably need another CB for depth. In today's NFL you can never have enough CBs plus if you get the coverage that helps the pass rush.
I for one hope they stay away from Burns. Everything I read about him is that he not a physical/aggressive player and we have had enough of those types of players on recently.
#Missouri’s Drew Lock will be visiting with the #Packers today. Legit visit from what I’ve been told.
— Charles Robinson (@CharlesRobinson) April 15, 2019
More on Lock's visit.
El-Ka-Bong posted:I don't honestly know if Hok is better than Fant, but I do know I'd rather take either of them a few picks later than 12
Agreed. Hock and Fant are 1A and 1B depending on what you want them to do in your offense. If you want an all around very good player who needs to be able to block, it's Hock. If you want a big athletic specimen that can rip the seam but isn't counted on to help on running downs, it's Fant.
Interesting about Lock. I happened to hear Rob Reischel last week talking about the possibility of the Packers taking a QB in this draft. Just sort of cracking open the idea, maybe just in response to the recent AR kerfuffle along with the coincidental timing of when Favre began his exit. I know many think it's a couple years off yet but I think it could happen, all depending on how things fall out in the draft. It's pretty obvious Kizer is not a serious replacement and Boyle doesn't strike me as a franchise-type QB. I don't see them making any moves to get a QB in the first, but if Lock fell, it might happen at 30. I'm not sure that MLF will be satisfied with the QB room left by the great QB guru. Link to the print version:
The interesting thing about bringing Lock in is he's popping up around the teens-20's in a lot of mocks, if that means anything. Could be drumming up interest in him so a team looking for a QB in RD1 may want to trade up to 12 or even above 12 to get him. Either scenario could help GB's position. OR maybe they think he could slide into RD2 in which case they may be interested.