Official General 2021 Offseason Thread

@CUPackFan posted:

Now I know the situations are different and I have no idea if Love will ever be a capable starter.......but everything that's being said about Love has already been said about Rodgers from 2005-2007.  Remember how Craig Nall was relegated to third string ONLY because of Rodgers draft status?  I do.  I also remember all the terrible training camp reports about Rodgers those first two years.  We just don't know right now so I'm not even going to waste energy speculating, let alone trying to factor in Rodgers future.

And for the record, I didn't like the pick.  But to feel better about it I just tell myself that we were going to draft the next Datone Jones, Damarious Randall, Nick Perry or Derrick Sherrod with that late first round pick.  Then I don't feel as bad we picked a guy that may never start for the Packers.

QB’s are coming in more ready though now and actually starting. Especially one’s drafted early. Rodgers had mechanical issues which are much easier things to clean up. With Love it’s more processing. We’ll see.  

Remember, Gute was very close to drafting Deshone Kizer as well.

Again, during the Rodgers/Favre eras there have only been 3 teams that have won more SBs: NE (obviously), NYG, and Dallas (who won all 3 in the 90’s). Every other team in the league has won 2, 1, or 0 during that span. Some of those teams have had HOF QBs, some of them have had HOF coaches or GMs, some have had HOF players on defense. The point is that it’s damn hard to win a SB and the Patriots had a miraculous formula of HOF coach/GM and HOF QB. NE isn’t the standard teams should be held to, they’re an outlier. Every team can look at their organization over the last 30 years and point to games or decisions or injuries that ultimately prevented them from winning a SB, GB is no different. Based on how the NFL goes, SB every ~10 years or so is the most realistic goal you should expect. Miraculous things can happen that change your teams fortune, honesty there’s no reason why the ‘07 and ‘11 Giants should have won, there’s no reason the Patriots should have beaten the Seahawks, the ‘14 Packers were the best team in the league. Shit happens though, I would be happy if we won SBs every year, but honestly I’m happy that we win A LOT and we’re not dysfunctional like the Bears, Vikings, and Lions. It’s 1000x more frustrating to love those teams, we bitch about barely not making a SB, those teams rarely sniff the playoffs.

Packers were not going to pay the tender price for Boyle of over $2 mil, because they have other RFA's that contribute to tender, e.g. Tonyan.  Especially true with their cap situation this year. They can however still sign Boyle to a league minimum deal if they desire, depending on his market in FA.

What frosted me about this season is how we manhandled the TItans, a playoff team, when they came into Lambeau and yet LOST to the Bucaneers.

It will stick in my craw as long as that loss to Seattle did. Which is still there.

@Chongo posted:

Oren Burks has a suck incentive

Which he has been taking to the bank!

@CUPackFan posted:

Now I know the situations are different and I have no idea if Love will ever be a capable starter.......but everything that's being said about Love has already been said about Rodgers from 2005-2007.  Remember how Craig Nall was relegated to third string ONLY because of Rodgers draft status?  I do.  I also remember all the terrible training camp reports about Rodgers those first two years.  We just don't know right now so I'm not even going to waste energy speculating, let alone trying to factor in Rodgers future.

And for the record, I didn't like the pick.  But to feel better about it I just tell myself that we were going to draft the next Datone Jones, Damarious Randall, Nick Perry or Derrick Sherrod with that late first round pick.  Then I don't feel as bad we picked a guy that may never start for the Packers.

Again, Love isn't in the same universe as Rodgers coming out of college and he cost more draft capital.  It's that simple.

That along with Favre retirement rumors and later his personal locker fiefdom when TT came onboard made it a easy decision to take a guy who was a legit #1 overall pick.

I also remember it was a minority of posters, with clowns like the-icon, driving the beef bus with Rodgers.  the-icon's biggest problem was Rodgers was a commie homo from California.

@YATittle posted:

Which he has been taking to the bank!

He's being paid in Dogecoin.

Rodgers is from Cali?

It's just a rumor.

In other Rodgers is a homo news, Olivia Munn doesn't appear to be handling AAron's engagement very well as she's been posting topless pictures to Terrell Owens.

Now if there was ever a guy that would be much happier coming to terms with his sexual identity, it would be Owens. 

From what I hear Love has a Long Way to Go and while I have no problem with the Packers developing him I hate the idea of trying to serve two masters here. The fact that this is even being discussed potentially  actually blows me away.  The “Common Agreement “ here appears that Super Bowls are very hard to win and the Packers have PROVEN frontwards and backwards that everything counts when building a Super Bowl Roster after falling so so short multiple times.  With a league built on such an ultra thin layer  between winning & losing every draft pick and FA move and every dollar counts. Go Secure A Damn Trophy!!! Quit with all the Bullshit!

You have arguably the best QB of All time playing at his highest level with a good core of players around him. These opportunities only come so often. We could go decades without this opportunity presenting itself again. To sacrifice this for some guy that many scouts thought was reached on that was on your scout team and couldn’t even suit up for one fricken game is a whole new level of EGO & INSANITY as far as I’m concerned!

You make an epic mistake then FINE!  Now you want to DOUBLE DOWN on It!  WOW!

Splain how they doubled down.  And with the rookie wage scale the cap numbers would be about the same if they had stayed at 29 and still picked a player in the 4th. They had to pay both of them somehow.

@ammo posted:

Splain how they doubled down.  And with the rookie wage scale the cap numbers would be about the same if they had stayed at 29 and still picked a player in the 4th. They had to pay both of them somehow.

By how I’ve carefully explained. If this all leads to them not giving Rodgers the extension that gives them the most amount of $ free’d up to help them field the best roster possible to compete for a World Championship and actually works as pushing Rodgers out the back door.

Well maybe Rodgers should be like Brady and take less money in a restructure so they can aquire some better players to win a Superb Owl.

GBP existed before Aaron Rodgers and will exist long after. I wish they hadn’t picked Love either, but the logic of moving on from your 35 year old QB is not insane. Just because Brady is 40+ and doing well enough as a QB is no reason to pretend Rodgers is ageless as well. We know NOW that Rodgers was still MVP caliber, but he was coming off a season where he didn’t look like Aaron Rodgers. Maybe an overreaction, maybe a difficult decision to plan for life beyond Aaron Rodgers. It has to happen at some point. Maybe his MVP season has changed the trajectory, it’s possible, but that doesn’t invalidate the decision and the logic at the time. 2020 was the prime season to take a QB and Rodgers was, again, not looking like Aaron Rodgers.

Love is not trash, there’s lots to debate and certainly there was likely disagreement in the scouting community, but we know that experienced football people from the GM down to the HC signed off that Love was worthy of a R1 pick. All you have to do is read Ron Wolf’s book about how they evaluate players, how they grade them and who is involved to know that. This isn’t Dallas or Washington where the owner steps in to override the scouts...Ron Wolfs system, which Gute is a disciple, involves everyone in the teams grading process. LaFleur and Hackett may not have agreed with the pick, but they agreed at some point he was a R1 pick. Gute is blunt that Love was the only R1 player left on their board. I don’t have a problem getting the right value, even burning a 4th to get it.

Look I sat on my couch watching R1 play out literally saying “we better not fucking take Jordan Love!” and I was as pissed as everyone when it happened. Big picture though, he stuck to his guns and picked the best player on their board. The blowback of such a call was going to be extreme, internally and externally, so I seriously doubt Gute made the decision lightly. Is what it is, I can respect Gute for making the call, I’m glad someone is planning for the future. Does anyone think the Lions ever plan more than a season down the road? It’s why they’re a loser.

@GB-Brandon posted:

From what I hear Love has a Long Way to Go and while I have no problem with the Packers developing him I hate the idea of trying to serve two masters here. The fact that this is even being discussed potentially  actually blows me away.  The “Common Agreement “ here appears that Super Bowls are very hard to win and the Packers have PROVEN frontwards and backwards that everything counts when building a Super Bowl Roster after falling so so short multiple times.  With a league built on such an ultra thin layer  between winning & losing every draft pick and FA move and every dollar counts. Go Secure A Damn Trophy!!! Quit with all the Bullshit!

You have arguably the best QB of All time playing at his highest level with a good core of players around him. These opportunities only come so often. We could go decades without this opportunity presenting itself again. To sacrifice this for some guy that many scouts thought was reached on that was on your scout team and couldn’t even suit up for one fricken game is a whole new level of EGO & INSANITY as far as I’m concerned!

No kidding. I have full evidence that one of those bottom of the first round picks was going to carry us to the Super Bowl on his shoulders and Gute knew it too. The Vikings tipped him off. Honest!

it must be liberating ranting about things for which you have absolutely no evidence for. I should try it.

@Grave Digger posted:

GBP existed before Aaron Rodgers and will exist long after.

Yeah, but did they win a Super Bowl without him? Didn’t think so. Wait...

@Goalline posted:

it must be liberating ranting about things for which you have absolutely no evidence for. I should try it.

It's the god damn best.

BTW Brandon, we have a saying around here.  "x4, not for pussies".  Don't expect normal here because it's 100 times more fun than your typical Packer BB.  There's some big brains around here and not just Packers stuff.

With that said, I'm usually the one everybody is crying about.  These other guys are a bunch of lightweights.

@ammo posted:

Well maybe Rodgers should be like Brady and take less money in a restructure so they can aquire some better players to win a Superb Owl.

Brady is banking $41 million this year. There’s no give back - just goofy accounting.

@ammo posted:

Well maybe Rodgers should be like Brady and take less money in a restructure so they can aquire some better players to win a Superb Owl.

I’m not sure if sticking a knife in his back and then asking him to take less $ is the best practice to take right now. Baby Steps!

Maybe extend him and get him a legit 2 and build some trust back!!

It's my hope my previous theory is correct.  Reason being if Gump explained his reasoning to Rodgers it would be much more palatable.  I personally don't think Rodgers is that petty but who the hell knows.

It's not about Rodgers overall, it's about the team.  That said, if the reasoning is to "move on" from Rodgers, even a couple years down the road, it's unbelievable stupid from a team standpoint overall.  You have a QB that's even better than Favre with no signs of slowing down.  Don't make the same mistakes.

All this said, I generally believe talks with Rodgers are happening.  Again, if they aren't, criminal.

Another thing, they should put Love in the #2 spot sink or swim.  When you've got labels like "raw" and "potential" attached to a friggin' 1st rounder you better see what you have.

If it wasn't for Love's decision making the kid would be a #1 overall pick.  He's got everything else but lacks the most fundamental skill

@GB-Brandon posted:

I’m not sure if sticking a knife in his back and then asking him to take less $ is the best practice to take right now. Baby Steps!

Maybe extend him and get him a legit 2 and build some trust back!!

Sticking a knife in his back? 😂

@Packiderm posted:

Sweatpants never go out of style!

Zubaz for the win.

And you can get them from the Packer Pro Shop.

I don't know which literal mullethead thought this was a good retro look.

Ah, I see they only have size small. 

Well played Packers Pro Shop, well played.

Henry, “mullet head”?  You know you wanted a pair otherwise you wouldn’t have clicked the link.😉

Brandon, welcome to X4. You are very well spoken, especially for a former football player. I can only assume you went to NDA.

I’m as big a of a Packer’s fan as anyone, and just as frustrated that we haven’t won more SBs. However, after living in all four NFC North states, I’ll forever be thankful I was born in GB.  

I didn’t like the Love pick, but I reserve the right to change my mind.  Remember, the universe tends to unfold as it should.

Shit, I’ve seen my favorite team win 2 titles in my lifetime.  Would have liked to see a couple more, but hey it could be worse.  See the Loins or Queens or even the Bores.  

As for Rodgers, we know the guy is sensitive to criticism and has a tendency to act like the smartest guy in the room.   That doesn’t always translate well to being the leader of the team.   But he is who he is and played at a high level in 2020 so I’m hopeful they can figure something out with his contract to free up some more space.

Time will tell on Jordan Love but holy crap it’s amazing how quickly people have come to the conclusion he can’t play.   Josh Allen would like to have a word with you about Josh Rosen and Mitchell Trubisky.   As if selecting and developing QBs was such an exact science.   The fact of the matter is I’ll bet half the QBs taken in R1 don’t amount to jack shit.   Maybe Love will suffer the same fate, who knows.  But just be thankful we didn’t pull a Chicago Bears and take a horrible player with the 2nd overall pick and now have nothing to show for it other than wanting to mortgage your future for the next best thing.  Man, we are spoiled.

@DocBenni posted:

Henry, “mullet head”?  You know you wanted a pair otherwise you wouldn’t have clicked the link.

Make no mistake, Henry has already purchased 3 pairs of smalls and is planning to shoehorn himself into a pair the moment they arrive.

Only smalls? That cuts out of 95% of their customer base.

@tsr86free posted:

Make no mistake, Henry has already purchased 3 pairs of smalls and is planning to shoehorn himself into a pair the moment they arrive.

I call them hot pants.

@Grave Digger posted:

Sticking a knife in his back? 😂

Gerp is more of a spork guy.  You can't spork all your holes.

And Love probably sits further on the "not ready to start" end of the spectrum.  He was always seen as a longer term prospect and that looks to be exactly what. 

I'll be honest, I'm not even sure what we're arguing about.  I think we all agree that Love was not a pick to help win a championship now and that we still don't know what we have in him.  I was actually more critical of the next two picks.

https://www.nfl.com/news/aaron...e-to-4-year-48m-deal

Hooray!!

I would think that almost guarantees a Rodgers deal update.

For any new deals, 2023 will be key. Cap expected to go boom.

Boom as in UP?  Or Boom as in Down? 

Up.

Thanks!

1 donut?! Lol Nah if ima have a snack ima have a Snack!

— Adrian Amos (@_SmashAmos31) March 15, 2021

Sounds like Amos has been hangin' with Snacks Harrison...

@Fedya posted:

Zubaz for the win.

And you can get them from the Packer Pro Shop.