I'm not expert, but Polite's strength and speed would be stunning in our D. Not Kahlil Mack yet, but he's young, only a junior.
I would not be in favor of trading both 1sts to move up. We have too many holes to fill and that 2nd 1st from NO will get us another good player, even at pick 30-32. Would not be surprised if Gutey traded that pick down to the very top of the 2nd for an extra pick or two, depending on how the tiers of players shakes out. I could see maybe trading up using one of our 4ths to get up higher in the 2nd or 3rd round for a targeted guy.
I'm with you DurangoDoug. I would not be shocked if he would manipulate things so that he'd have 2 1st round picks and 2 second round picks. There are so many holes, I think he needs as many high draft picks as he can get. The scouts are going to have to do a much better job than they have the past few years as another shaky draft will continue to set this team back.
FYI: saw Mayock has us taking Bama TE Irv Smith Jr. With our second first round pick. A very complete TE as I understand, can block and run decent routes from anywhere in the formation. But I'll defer to our board's draft experts. He has a lot of Edge rushers going early, a lot of DL, and has us with Polite from Florida at 12.
I would not want to package our two first-rounders to move up. We need bodies, and drafting in the top five is never a guarantee in GB. See: Mandarich, who only was okay for other teams, and the rest of the serviceables back through 1959: Hawk, B. Fullwood, Buckley, Bruce Clark, Fred Carr (maybe more than serviceable), Tom Moore, Randy Duncan (had to look him up—QB from Iowa).
But whoever ran the 1957-1958 draft where GB had #1 & 4 in ‘57 and #3 in ‘58 did okay: Hornung and Ron Kramer in ‘57, and Dan Currie in ‘58.
You could argue that since 1961 GB does better drafting mid to later in Round 1: Adderly at 12; Dave Robinson, 14; D. Anderson, 7; Grabowski, 9; Gillingham, 13; Brockington, 9; Buchanon, 7; E. Johnson, 28; Lofton, 6; John Anderson, 26; Eddie Lee Ivery, 15; Tim Lewis, 11 (what coulda been...); Ruettgers, 7; Sharpe, 7; Franks, 14; J. Walker, 20; Barnett, 29; Rodgers, 24; Raji, 9; CMIII, 29; Bulaga, 23; K. Clark, 27; Alexander, 18.
Since this was such fun, I looked up the rest of our division for notable players drafted in the top 5 since 1960.
Detroit: B. Sims, Sanders, B. Westbrook, C. Johnson, Suh, Stafford, Ansah.
MN: Tommy Mason, Yary, Doleman, and in a stretch, Kalil. Yup, that’s it!
Bears: Ditka, Butkus, Sayers, Payton, D. Hampton, McMahon, Trubisky.
You could argue that Chicago did the best drafting in the top 5 followed by Detroit, GB, and last as always, MN. Mostly, it shows that I think drafting in the top 5 is a crapshoot more than drafting in the mid- to later-third. So, don’t trade up! 😁
They need at least 5-6 new starters on defense. These are the guys that are you have some confidence that will come back and do well.
DL: Kenny Clark, Mike Daniels
LB: Blake Martinez, Fackrell
DB: Jairie Alexander, probably Josh Jackson
On offense, you probably like what you have at RB, WR, Bakh, L. Taylor, and Linsley. The OL after those 3 (and Bulaga if you bring him back) needs an upgrade in terms of depth and at least one starter - TE (probably 2), RG, and another OT.
You need multiple picks to hit this year, but it's probably a two year process at this point.
What has Josh Jackson done to earn your confidence? Not saying he won’t be successful, but he’s a project right now.
I would add Josh Jones as well to Jackson. Jackson hit the proverbial wall this year, and Jones the sophomore slump. Expected better from both.
FA will have a lot to do with how the draft shakes out.
Agreed Josh Jackson is a question mark. Very athletic but he looks lost.
Fandame posted:(good stuff deleted)
But whoever ran the 1957-1958 draft where GB had #1 & 4 in ‘57 and #3 in ‘58 did okay: Hornung and Ron Kramer in ‘57, and Dan Currie in ‘58.
Jack Vainisi !
"Jack Vainisi was a scout and personnel director for the Green Bay Packers from 1950 to 1960. At the age of 23, he was hired by Packers head coach Gene Ronzani to lead the team's player personnel department."
Good link for Vainisi's story...
Grave Digger posted:What has Josh Jackson done to earn your confidence? Not saying he won’t be successful, but he’s a project right now.
I'm not sure he's a starter, but he's better than the Randall, Rollins, Gunther, Goodson type of guys they have. At worst, he's a reserve.
Fandame posted:I would add Josh Jones as well to Jackson. Jackson hit the proverbial wall this year, and Jones the sophomore slump. Expected better from both.
Don’t you have to have a really good rookie year to go into a sophomore slump? Jones is teetering in bust territory right now
I think both need better position coaches.
Grave Digger posted:Gute was seemingly targeting Alexander in R1 last year and I wouldn’t be surprised if he did the same this year. A guy like Clelin Ferrell makes a lot of sense as a target, so does a guy like Parris Campbell. Move up a couple spots for Ferrell or down a couple spots for Campbell to pair with Adams, that’s a good start. A guy like Jonah Williams makes sense in the latter scenario also.
GD: I think you are spot on, just as a decade ago they were locked in on Greg Jennings in round two (remember the Chad Jackson controversy) and going back even further the Chad Clifton pick in round two in 98? so it isn't always the top guy you lock in on as long as your judgement is sound. Nothing seems more difficult than projecting what a 20 year old will mature into, some like Kenny Clark grow into studs and some are beset by injuries or human frailities but the biggest is poor judgement- remember Too Small Jamal. Coaches help and I have grown to really respect James Campen and his ability to teach the GB technique of blocking, so I just hope they get him some talent to mold! As I have written before I agree about Ferrell he is a little stiff but I do suspect he will be a helluva player- I also am just leery of GB taking a WR in round one unless they feel he is the second coming of Randy Moss. There are many holes on this team and until 12's mindset is right (which I think would improve dramatically with better O-line play)
If they go back a couple of spots and pick a round 1 skill player I'm not going to complain. They need a legit WR combo and if it yields another pick somewhere, great.
I railed on the BPA strategy a while ago but then I look at Kevin King/TJ Watt controversy (yeah, I know) and King was anything but BPA. There just needs to be an appropriate balance. If there is a Olineman or DE/LB worth his salt, I don't care if he's slightly lower on the board. If you know he's someone who would fit and play well, draft him.
What Goink did last year was perfect. Alexander was considered by some to be the second best CB on the board and he played it right. BPA type pick, also major need and netting another #1? That's impressive.
I still think we need RT, RG, Pass Rusher/OLB and Safety as our top priorities. No matter what Gute does, either at staying at 12 and 30 something or combining picks to move up or down the board, we need to fill those positions with players who can play from day one and add much needed depth at their positions. So many holes to fill and lots of time, until the Draft and FA, to get it right at 1265.
I really hope they fill the safety position via FA. It's just a personal thing, but I am sick of seeing backfield picks in droves.
Agree with S being a FA addition. That position requires experience IMO so you're better served getting a mid range talent in FA then you are drafting one high.
After using seven 1st or 2nd round picks in the last 5 drafts on DBs, it's time to upgrade some other positions. The problem is that only 1 of those 7 (Alexander) is a sure starter. The jury is out on Josh Jackson, but I think he's got a chance. The other 5 are gone and/or busts (Dix, Randall, Rollins, King, Josh Jones).
I still want to give King another year before the bust label is applied. I see genuine talent there, but his injury issues have hurt him. If he slacks off in the coming off-season and has another year of injuries, then it’s time to move on.
Give King another year. He's had both shoulders fixed now, correct? If he can't stay healthy this year, then he needs to move on to using his college degree... oops. I don't think he has one. Then he should use some of the money he's earned and return to school because his shoulders should be able to allow him to take notes.
bvan posted:Good link for Vainisi's story...
Thanks, Bvan. Good story. Interesting that Vince was a Vainisi recommendation and Vince came because of him. It was also cool to read that Vainisi advanced scouting to get better players; he probably would have been one of the first to use sabermetrics. Sad that Vainisi died at such a young age. We might never have had to live through the '80s if he were alive.
Rashan Gary has the biggest bust potential
Fandame posted:bvan posted:Good link for Vainisi's story...
Thanks, Bvan. Good story. Interesting that Vince was a Vainisi recommendation and Vince came because of him. It was also cool to read that Vainisi advanced scouting to get better players; he probably would have been one of the first to use sabermetrics. Sad that Vainisi died at such a young age. We might never have had to live through the '80s if he were alive.
So, if he lived thru the '80 we wouldn't?
Eh... good catch. But if you lived through the '80s watching the Packers, you'll know what I mean. 
Pikes Peak posted:I died most every week
Me, too.
Don't blame your choice of cheez wiz burritos on the 80's.
PBR: The Dishwater of Beers, as my dad always said.
Fandame posted:Eh... good catch. But if you lived through the '80s watching the Packers, you'll know what I mean.
Gotta love somebody else taking the same snarky tack I would have thought of taking. 
PBR has a low calorie beer on the market now... ****ing hipsters are destroying this country.
When I'm forced to go to my Packer bar... Great food menu too.
Early games start with Bloody Mary's followed by PBR's.
Late games are all PBR.
Packers and PBR's are a growing up tradition... And I still have to drive home.
Henry posted:Don't blame your choice of cheez wiz burritos on the 80's.
In the '80s it din't take burritos to get indigestion. All I needed was a fall afternoon with the Packers.
Is Oakland having regrets for trading Mack for all those picks from the lowly Bears rather than the late picks from Green Bay?
If mack played in green bay, mm is still coach and packers are in playoffs.
Maybe. Packers had a lot of injuries this season.