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Henry posted:

How about getting guys you don't have to endlessly coach in the first place?  I hate those two idiot idioms.  They are always false logic.  Get guys who you know can play.  Bad GMs stick with a shitty formula of you "can't coach that". 

Great.  MVS. VanillaFace RunFastGuy.  Corey Bradford.  Datone Jones.  Oren Burks.  Fast and long.

And I can create a list of hundreds of great college players who didn't do squat at the NFL level because they get over powered by bigger, faster guys who can also play.

When presented with the choice between two guys who are similar players, I'd always take the bigger, faster one. when you put them on the field, the bigger, faster guy is going to be harder to beat.

Look at Wisconsin football. They have lots of guys who are really good football players. But when they get put on the field against a similar team with really good football players who are bigger, faster like OSU, they rarely win. 

"We" seem to be honed in on ILB, but what if they're counting on Burks to play major snaps and are looking at "upgrading" hybrid spots? Something like this where Baun is at ILB in base Dugger is the Joker over Raven Green but both move around, depending on formation.

 

Round 2 Pick 6 (CAR): Zack Baun, OLB, Wisconsin 
Round 2 Pick 30: Kyle Dugger, FS/SS, Lenoir-Rhyne 
Round 3 Pick 10 (CAR): Lynn Bowden, WR, Kentucky 
Round 3 Pick 30: Ezra Cleveland, OT, Boise State 
Round 4 Pick 30: Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic
Round 5 Pick 29: Khalil Davis, DT, Nebraska 
Round 6 Pick 13: Krys Barnes, ILB/OLB, UCLA
Round 6 Pick 29: Javarius Davis, CB, Auburn 
Round 6 Pick 30: Quartney Davis, WR, Texas A&M 
Round 7 Pick 10: Patrick Taylor Jr, RB, Memphis 
Round 7 Pick 28: Jake Luton, QB, Oregon State 
Round 7 Pick 29: Mohamed Barry, OLB, Nebraska

AtTheMurph posted:

When presented with the choice between two guys who are similar players, I'd always take the bigger, faster one. when you put them on the field, the bigger, faster guy is going to be harder to beat.

 

So you're saying they had the same type of production in college with the same level of competition?  So, guys who can play and not just look good in undies?  Similar correct? 

I don't see guys who just run fast or are "long" as their primary feature and guys that play solid football with tape that translates to the NFL as "similar".

 

Last edited by Henry

New Packers mock from the Athletic. I gotta say, this makes a lot of sense. I'm guessing the author believes GB will acquire a veteran LB and WR to fill those gaps and let Bulaga walk. Jackson fits the profile of Packers picks...very young (21 in May), high athletic upside, power 5 pedigree. Same thing with Madubuike and Bryant, they're both 22 (or will be at the draft), but they have high athletic upside. Dillon seems like a quality add if available to this backfield, be a dash/smash tandem with Jones. Can't imagine they go for a Punter after just spending a high pick on Opie, but they may be getting close to moving on. Stock the trenches! 

Round 1 (No. 30 overall): Austin Jackson, OT, USC
Round 2 (62): Justin Madubuike, DL, Texas A&M
Round 3 (94): Harrison Bryant, TE, Florida Atlantic
Round 4 (136): AJ Dillon, RB, Boston College
Round 5 (176): Alex Highsmith, Edge, Charlotte
Round 6 (192, via Raiders in Trevor Davis trade): James Morgan, QB, Florida International
Round 6 (209): Alton Robinson, DL, Syracuse
Round 7 (219, via Browns in Justin McCray trade): Essang Bassey, DB, Wake Forest
Round 7 (243, via Ravens in Ty Montgomery trade): Matt Hennessy, OL, Temple
Round 7 (244, via Titans in Reggie Gilbert trade): Sterling Hofrichter, P, Syracuse

Last edited by Grave Digger

Jackson had been projected much earlier in the draft. Had similar measurables at the combine, a little better on BP, 40 and broad jump than Jones. Analysis I've read says Jones has potential for a higher ceiling, but Jackson is more ready to plug and play...which if they cut ties with Boolager, that is more of a priority.

Madubuike is a man-child...4.83 at 293lbs...31 reps on BP.

Harrison Bryant is getting a lot of pub because people compare him to George Kittle. He gave Miami fits this year. Shaq Quarterman, Miami's fastest ILB, couldn't cover him. He'd be a nice get.

Kind of surprising that mock has not 1 WR even though Bryant could be an impact guy.

Even with a FA signing at WR, with a draft as deep at WR as supposed experts have ever seen, I can't see the Packers not choosing one somewhere in rounds 1-3. 

It was also revealed that Robert Tonyan had core muscle surgery done in the off season and that's why he kinda fell off the radar after he went down with that sideline injury. Apparently, the Packers are still pretty high on him and Sternberger. If they are, and say sign Austin Hooper or Hunter Henry, I can't see GB taking another TE in the 3rd round. But I guess time will tell.  

 

Yeah I was surprised by that opinion as well, but in a year where teams will possibly be tripping over themselves to get one of these can't miss WR, it may create opportunities to snag quality players who will be driven down boards by this vaunted class...and possibly talented WRs who will get pushed to Day 3. I mean, SF and KC didn't make/win the SB because of their WR core, certainly KC's group made a big impact, but truly we saw some really outstanding trench play and the 2 best TEs in the game. You have Adams, you sign Hooper, add in this rookie Bryant, and maybe a #2 or Slot receiver and boom your receiving core is both versatile and talented. I think you have to draft a WR somewhere, you can't stand pat at any position really, but maybe it doesn't have to be early. Just a little different perspective on how this draft could go. Gute goes with the BPA on his board it seems or finds a way to go get the guy(s) he wants, so I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that we enter Day 3 having not picked a WR. 

GB personnel usage in 2019 via Warren Sharp

https://www.sharpfootballstats...uping-frequency.html

11 ( 3 WRs)  42 %
12 (2 WRs)   38 %
21 (2 WRs)   14 %
22  ( 1 WR)     6 %
13  ( 1 WR)      5 %

So that means GB played with only  2 WRs on the field 52 % of the time !

We might all be off base because we remember Big 5 with 5 WRs and 4 WR formations. Those were not a part of the MLF offense last year -  and although some of that may be attributed to the quality of the WRs, MLF didn't play 5 wide in ATL or Tenn either.

Adams, EQ, Lazard...and MVS are a solid start, Packers might only add 1 more WR this offseason via draft/FA given the snaps available and the focus of this offense on the TE's and RB's

Last year the RBs caught "too many" passes, but they will still take a chunk of the throws away from the WRs on Sunday under the MLF plan. Part of that is because the RB/LB and TE/LB match-ups can favor the offense more than the WR/CB match- ups.

MM had 5 WRs who were studs, he knew his # 3 WR was better than your # 3 CB. Same with # 4, #5.  MILF is just doing it differently.

And we as fans might have to adjust our thinking at the WR position to one of Quality over one of Quantity. If you look at 49er WR snaps counts vs Rams WR snap counts, you can see that MLF is more Shanny than McVay

https://www.footballoutsiders....tats/nfl/snap-counts

Also: I'm higher on EQ than most, but I think he's a legit WR in 2020

But another way to read your first stat reference is:

"So that means GB played with 2 OR 3 WRs on the field 80 % of the time !"  Even if you want to parse out the 3WR, it's still 42%, which is still a lot.

I agree that we shouldn't expect BG to build a MM/TT style WR corps as MLF's O has proven success with and commitment to the run game.  But on the other hand, I still believe this offense needs a legit #2WR whether that be a FA or draft pick.  I wouldn't expect ESB to be that guy but if he played at a solid #3 in 2020 I think we're in good shape with him and Lazard.  

Good points Satan. Lazard wasn't a slouch either although I'm not ready to crown his ass a legit starter. He has some really unique tools. EQ has some unique tools as well. If both those guys take another step, that means Adams can spend more time in the Slot where he's lethal. Throw in some legit talent at TE like Hooper and there's some real tools for Rodgers to work with. On the flip side, if Bulaga's demands are more than they're willing to concede, we have a massive gap at RT along with current gaps at DL and ILB I think it's reasonable and smart to think WR may not be our biggest need. 

Satori:
Adams, EQ, Lazard...and MVS are a solid start,

GD:
Lazard wasn't a slouch either although I'm not ready to crown his ass a legit starter.

If you are correct about Lazard, GD, then 3 of the above 4 may not be legit starters.  And that is considered a solid start?

I don't get it.  To me a solid start is 3 wide receivers that are extremely likely to be legit starters.

Last edited by phaedrus
Satori posted:

GB personnel usage in 2019 via Warren Sharp

https://www.sharpfootballstats...uping-frequency.html

11 ( 3 WRs)  42 %
12 (2 WRs)   38 %
21 (2 WRs)   14 %
22  ( 1 WR)     6 %
13  ( 1 WR)      5 %

So that means GB played with only  2 WRs on the field 52 % of the time !

We might all be off base because we remember Big 5 with 5 WRs and 4 WR formations. Those were not a part of the MLF offense last year -  and although some of that may be attributed to the quality of the WRs, MLF didn't play 5 wide in ATL or Tenn either.

Adams, EQ, Lazard...and MVS are a solid start, Packers might only add 1 more WR this offseason via draft/FA given the snaps available and the focus of this offense on the TE's and RB's

Last year the RBs caught "too many" passes, but they will still take a chunk of the throws away from the WRs on Sunday under the MLF plan. Part of that is because the RB/LB and TE/LB match-ups can favor the offense more than the WR/CB match- ups.

MM had 5 WRs who were studs, he knew his # 3 WR was better than your # 3 CB. Same with # 4, #5.  MILF is just doing it differently.

And we as fans might have to adjust our thinking at the WR position to one of Quality over one of Quantity. If you look at 49er WR snaps counts vs Rams WR snap counts, you can see that MLF is more Shanny than McVay

https://www.footballoutsiders....tats/nfl/snap-counts

Also: I'm higher on EQ than most, but I think he's a legit WR in 2020

There's a problem when Jones is running go routes and regularly lining up as a WR. 

You had Adams and green Lazard, that was it.  Doesn't matter what the scheme is you can't have 1 1/2 receivers.  That said, I also believe EQ can make some noise but again you have to look at EQ and Lazard as 3's or 4's.  They NEED that #2 position to be filled with a real threat.  It subtracts from what Jones can do as well if defenses strategies are "cover Adam, cover Jones".

What Mayo did last year was pretty damn amazing and without a doubt he showed he believes in the run game.  How he handled a hamstrung passing offense was pretty ugly but impressive.

Last edited by Henry
ilcuqui posted:

Iโ€™ll be astonished if Murray falls to us. Especially since Pittsburgh and Baltimore draft ahead of us... they always seem to pick off defensive players in the first round that would meet big needs for Green Bay. 

PIT just spent a RD1 last year on an ILB.  I doubt they'd do it again considering their needs elsewhere.  I'm not familiar with BAL's needs at ILB but they could spoil.  I have seen Murray going to the Raiders in many mocks.

Pikes Peak posted:

I heard some scout this morning describe the conundrum that the draft is. Allow me to paraphrase, 

There are 4.7 guys who play like 4.0 guys and 4.0 guys who play like 4.7 guys.  Which why the underwear Olympics mean less than  game film and talking with the players coaches.  And by game film he meant  game film, not highlight snippets compiled by agents, etc.

 

 

The 40yd dash thing get's me. If anyone really watched any of that you could tell before the they ran which guys would have better times in their position groups just by how they lined up to run.

Some of those guys have track experience and know how to start and some just run fast but have no clue or training to run a fast 40. The 4.3 - 4.4 -4.5 guys are all about the same to me. It's just validation.

You have to go to the tape and see how they play. Jonathan Taylor is fast. We know he's fast. We've all seen it. He's also a track guy so it didn't surprise me that he was the fastest of the RBs.  

Henry posted:

There's a problem when Jones is running go routes and regularly lining up as a WR. 



Why? That's a huge advantage and wasn't done because we needed him at WR, but because he's a mismatch against LB and Safeties. We're going to see a lot of Jones lining up all over the place as long as he's in this offense whether we stack the WR position with UFA's and 1st round picks or not. Kid is a weapon, get the ball in his hands.  

Grave Digger posted:
Henry posted:

There's a problem when Jones is running go routes and regularly lining up as a WR. 



Why? That's a huge advantage and wasn't done because we needed him at WR, but because he's a mismatch against LB and Safeties. We're going to see a lot of Jones lining up all over the place as long as he's in this offense whether we stack the WR position with UFA's and 1st round picks or not. Kid is a weapon, get the ball in his hands.  

We needed Jones to be a threat as a receiver, in part, because we couldn't threaten a whole lot with receiving, regardless of position.

CHASE CLAYPOOL: RIDING THE BIG SLOT WAVE (from Nov. '19)

You have a "WR" in Claypool who is 6'4", 238 lbs., ran a 4.42, jumped 40", benched 19 reps, loves to block, and can play the Slot. This is a guy that might be a darkhorse at 30. Aaron Rodgers seems to LOVE the idea of not subbing, so if you can keep a Adams, Lazard, Jones on the field with 2 TE who have versatility to play Slot, Wing, FB, and inline while still being able to matchup well with CBs and Safeties AND block, your play selection is immense. 

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